Welcome to PatsFans.com

Embryonic Stem Cells

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by All_Around_Brown, Jul 20, 2006.

?

Embryonic Stem Cells Have a Place in Biomedical Research

  1. YES

    15 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. NO

    2 vote(s)
    11.1%
  3. DONT KNOW

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. HUH??

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  1. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The president in his infinite wisdom and sound scientific advice, has decided to finally use a veto (Only took six years), to prevent the federal funding of stem cell research. Regardless of where you stand on whether it should be funded or not by the fed, do you think embryonic stem cell lines should be researched by biomedical research or not? If not, why?
  2. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,171
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Once again, the ONLY PRESIDENT TO EVER FUND EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH IS....................................................


    GEORGE W. BUSH!!!!!


    Why don't we actually let them use the stem cells they have and make a discovery, rather than just pure conjuecture, before we start harvesting humans for research!
  3. scout

    scout Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    7,624
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #15 Jersey
    Clearly, George Bush is a pioneer. From his theory of evolution to his supposition on global warming, the man is brilliant. What better person to control our well-being in regards to embryonic research, the Decider.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2005
  4. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    36,491
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #87 Jersey
    Anyone that votes "HUH" SHOULD BE BANISHED
    to the "General forum" for being brain dead.:p
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2006
  5. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    13,261
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    No.

    01010101
  6. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Curious, why no?
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Ya think that might be due to the fact that ESCR has been a very recent topic of research...huh?...do ya?...huh?

    No point in doing fusion energy research because there's never been a successful fusion reaction. Maybe we should have restricted the Manhattan project to using aluminum to make the A-bomb. Maybe Columbus should have stayed home. Maybe the Apollo project was nothing more than a romp on the moon, and we should have stopped at earth orbit.

    Your brilliance is only outdone by your ability to swab Bush's sphincter. Arguing the point that Bush is right to not fund ESCR by saying that he's the only president to fund it. That friggin genius! :rocker:
  8. milwaukeebeers44

    milwaukeebeers44 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Because most of the cell lines we have (per NIH) are NOT embryonic. There is a difference between embryonic ones and "adult" stem cells.

    Embryonic stem cells show promise because it may be possible to turn them into ANY KIND OF CELL WE NEED. . .for example, neurons in ALS, Parkinsons, or Alzheimers. Neurons, once dead, do not regenerate (no new ones are ever made).

    The other stem cells are still stem cells, but they have already been "marked" and they know what kind of cell they are becoming. For example, cord blood (if any of you have babies) is rich in stem cells, but they are already to the point that we know they're going to become blood cells. So therefore, they'd only work for diseases such as blood cancers.

    But goodness, why would anyone in this forum ever want to listen to someone who's actually done a tissue culture with stem cells??? :rolleyes:
  9. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,171
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    So get yourself some funding and do your research and find the cures, then you will be a rich man! Again this is always couched with "Bush is banning stem cell research" which is a complete lie!! Anyone is free to do all the stem cell research they want. You could go an abort all the babies you want to get your stem cells, have a ball! Just don't ask me to pay for it!!!
  10. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Do you mind the government funding any research? That would be acceptable and I would agree with you. The government, in this case, is cherry-picking (there's that phrase, again) what it funds, and is therefor, left open to criticism. They can't fund research for improving pest control or computer modelling for weather patterns and ban federal funding for ESCR. It's not like they don't have the money, right?
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2005
  11. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Scientists are saying the NIH lines are becoming contaminated and not suitable for use... seems like stem cells have a shelf life. I agree the government shouldn't be funding this, but I'd rather see them fund this until they stop funding all the other stuff they shouldn't be funding, like the war on drugs.
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +40 / 2 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    Obviously the answer is yes but the question was asked wrong. Bush just vetoed federal funding, not the research. As I have said, CA alone is funding $3B worth.
  13. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:


    Bush has banned all the '' NEW EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS'' ''FROM'' this ''country'' from research. Meaning the untold numbers of embryo stem cells derived from the ferility process are all incinerated ... These are the stem cells the researchers are using and they are never implanted and instead are still in petri dish in refrigeration... Most are not implanted and become unviable for impregnating and instead of researching thier use for cures and medicines they are incinerated. When he could have made exceptions to this line of stemcells that are created in a dish and not an aborted fetus.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2006
  14. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Last edited: Jul 21, 2006
  15. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    When did that happen? Certainly not with this veto, since a veto can't create a new ban on something.
  16. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    New as in, no new embryonic stemcells created in this country are to be researched... You can use existing and import from other countries.. NO?
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2006
  17. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I'm honestly not sure what the current situation here is. I know the veto yesterday didn't change anything, so whatever the law was before, it still is.
  18. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I think your right, the bill would have allowed this research, where it didn't before? and provide funding?...
  19. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +40 / 2 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #24 Jersey
    No. Federal funding just can't be used. Non federal money can use new lines of ESCs.
  20. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Not if those new lines of ESCs. are derived in THE u.s.a. ? They can not be researched?
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2006
  21. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    So as I understand it, you can use whatever stem cells you want, derived from anywhere you want, if you don't use federal money. If you use federal money (like if you're an NIH scientist), you're shut out.
  22. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Except if thier derived from the usa, they have to go to other countries for new stem cells.. And no federal money is used for assistance..
  23. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    You might be right (I don't claim to know), but how do you know they can't be derived in the USA? Is there a law to that effect? If not, what's to keep a privately operating scientist from harvesting embrionic stem cells?
  24. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I will have to read the bill to make sure! I believe as the president said there will be no researching of new stemcells derived from sources within the usa, you can how ever purchase stemcell lines outside the usa if your a non federal buyer?
  25. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Myny projects are funded by using NIH funding through grants. I wonder if private labs such as the Whitehead Institute at MIT and mix in NIH funding in projects that partially involve ESCR research?
  26. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    But there's no bill to read, it was veto'd.

    Unless there is an OLDER bill making harvesting stem cells in the US a crime, it's OK to do. Again, what happened on Wed. was that congress passed a bill, and the president veto'd it. As such, there was NO CHANGE IN THE LAW, and unless it was illegal before, it's still legal now.
  27. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    And of all the spending bills he could have vetoed, he chose the one that hinderes scientific research with this veto!!!
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2006
  28. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Good points from several posters here. This is one. Milwaukee is right on also.

    This veto beckons the question:

    Will universities that receive federal grants in biomedicine be subject to forfeiting grant monies if they are found to be developing new stem cell lines...even if that money is not being spent on the task specifically?

    Its what the admin has been trying with several other areas of biomedicine including: the HPV vaccine and morning after pill. That is, they've been looking for ways to excuse themselves from scientific discovery on multiple fronts, apparently on moral/bioethical grounds.

    The votes that oppose this legislation are telling. These are the American Taliban we're talking about here. A minority, sure, but holding all the keys to unlock the R and D doors, IMO. And whenever the research involves embryos...the american taliban will oppose it.

    Just listen to cuckoo Brownbacks speech on the floor during this debate and you'll see. ESCR is staunchly opposed because it involves "little babies" in these knuckleheads minds. These people are the minority and yet they hold the most power.

    And the point of this poll was simply to determine if the bioethical issue is the major sticking point,and whether we could come to terms across party lines on an issue like this. I think we can based on the results. BUt with a demonstrably small minority of opinion in this nation holding all the power, it appears we're actually closer to authoritarianism than most people would like to admit.

    Which is why I say we tax the churches NOW.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2006
  29. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    How about we tax only churches for making the People stupid. What is the cost we pay for idiotic policies based on religious books written by the Supreme Allied Commander of the Universe?
  30. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,098
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I got it...you are taxed at a rate proportional to the amount of time spent watching the 700 Club or Billy Graham Crusade.

Share This Page