Eli's game-winning drive in SB42

[BananaRepublican]

He doesn't have Brady's number, although the Giants D may well have this offense's or OLine's number and Eli may well have had this defenses number.

Thank you. QBs do not play each other so I doubt that they own each other like a point guard owns some power forward.

It's a dumb saying to say that one QB owns another. Let's not forget this is a team sport, and even the great John Elway "couldn't win the big one" before he showed up with a complete team.

And honestly, I did not see a complete team out there playing the Giants.

 

[BananaRepublican]

And frankly btw, Super Bowls are not a particularly effective measure of QB talent. We can all agree Brady has been better in the last 5 years of his career than the first 5. Yet, he has won 0 SBs vs 3 SBs.

Wow, you really want to pop Simpleton Minds.

There is a major problem hoisting a QB to a status that he really doesn't deserve. The team wins and loses, not the QB. It's just too easy to forget this but NFL history is loaded with such example as the Elway Effect.

 

[the Patriot]

Feels like /sp/ in here.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Please don't strawman. I never said his success is entirely due to luck,

You said Eli was on the right side of luck. Did I misinterpret?

you can't even be an NFL QB never mind win the Super Bowl without being one of the top 32 in the entire world. All I'm saying is that there is a distinction between winning a Super Bowl through flawless execution, and winning a Super Bowl through good execution with some miraculous plays and fantastic defense. That's what separates elite QBs from good QBs who won Super Bowl(s).

We'll disagree here. QB is a position that requires an additional measureable to determine greatness. Terry Bradshaw was not a very good statistical QB. Elway, Aikman, Griese and Starr were all multiple SB winners and had varying levels of excellence. They all had great careers but they all made plays when the had to. They all played on good teams but it was their play that put them over the top again and again. If great QB play was all that mattered Jeff George would have been traded for by a team with a great running game and defense.

And frankly btw, Super Bowls are not a particularly effective measure of QB talent. We can all agree Brady has been better in the last 5 years of his career than the first 5. Yet, he has won 0 SBs vs 3 SBs. If SBs are the key measure of QB talent, these two statements are mutually exclusive.

Having a more stout defense, a balanced offense and a bang-bang play here and there go the other way would have gotten Brady a 4th and possibly 5th ring. Since none of those things are the case, history is what it is...

However, we can see that they are not, and therefore can deduce that SB wins are not in fact the key measure of QB talent. And it makes sense, Brady didn't have a game-winning drive the last two Super Bowls because he didn't even have a chance to, how can we hold that against a quarterback? If we manage the clock so that Eli doesn't have a chance, is he suddenly a much worse, less clutch QB?

SB wins are not the key measure of talent but they are one of the key measures of greatness.

There is nothing strawman about this. Pretty straightforward really.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Didn't want to embed the video, but this sums it up (I admit I didn't read anything other than the title).
Miracle Max clip - YouTube

 

[Joey007]

Like someone else said in this thread earlier- we've lost our right to trash talk the Giants. However, we have plenty of trash we can discuss with the other New York team, we even have a nice thread dedicated just for them.