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Egyptian troops shoot at monks in Coptic Monastary

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Feb 25, 2011.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Ethnic cleansing of the Christians in Egypt begins.

    Egyptian Armed Forces Fire At Christian Monasteries, 19 Injured



    Wonder if the administration will decry the violence by the government against it's citizens. Probably not is my guess.
  2. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Does the administration always, or usually, condemn these kinds of actions?

    As repugnant as they are, it seems like this happens throughout the world on a regular basis. I don't monitor the WH's statements but I'd be surprised if they comment on all of them. (Maybe they do, though.)
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They did when the army threaten the MB demonstrators before Mubarick stepped down, remember? just a few weeks ago. They made some tepid statements about Ghaddafi attacking civilians.
  4. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Yes -- did I say they don't ever comment? (answer: no)

    I take it you don't know how regularly they do comment.
  5. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    This makes me concerned as to which direction a post Mubarek Egypt is heading. I cant imagine this is a good indication of a future of peaceful democracy.
  6. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Generally, no, this wouldn't seem to be a good sign...
  7. reflexblue

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    I want to see another source validate this story before i believe it. The home page seems to have quite a few christian persecution storys for me to take it at face value. Besides there is a lot going on right now with Lybia and domestic politics i wouldn't expect the administration in washington to comment on this situation if it really happened. I'm not sure these are American citizens.

    The whole thing smells like one of 13's mis information stories.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2011
  8. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So strange i googled this story and there was not a single story corroborating this one. Its the only source, yes so strange. :rolleyes:
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That is because this is happening all over the ME.


    Copts gather in Tahrir to protest purported attack on monastery | Al-Masry Al-Youm: Today's News from Egypt

    EGYPT Military uses force against Egypt?s Coptic monasteries, wounding many - Asia News

    Egyptian Armed Forces Demolish Fences Guarding Coptic Monasteries | Australian Coptic Movement (ACM)


    this one has video of the shooting.

    Egyptian armed forces chanting "Allahu akbar" storm Christian monastery with tanks, open fire, injuring 19 - Jihad Watch
  10. patsfan13

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    So naive? So cynical? Who knows.
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We too have extremist right-wing elements that wanted to deport Muslims and one could imagine that these right-wingers, if our nation became lawless, would favor even worse extremes. Hopefully the religious right will not get control in Egypt. As we know from the USA, they are a danger to human rights for many groups, though hopefully as a matter of policy they would not go on shooting Coptic churches.
  12. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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  13. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But again why would obama or someone in his administration make a statement on this? These AREN'T American citizens and after reading another one of your links it sounded like small potatos compared with the rest of whats going on.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2011
  14. patsfan13

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    If you look at the Pugh poll and Zogby the MB and ISlamist are the mainstream in Egypt. Cad call Patters.

    This is the policy of the people who will be in charge there and other places in the ME. Why did the left (Intl ANSWER for example) fall in with these folks?
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's a fight for freedom, pf13. The odds aren't that long that the Egyptian government will be better. There were many youth involved, the internet played a major role, and there's at least a chance that there will be a degree of liberalization that I think most Americans would embrace. I agree there's a risk of something even worse than Mubarak, but the people were angry enough to take that risk. We should be backing them.
  16. patsfan13

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    Si if they pursue a policy of ethnic cleansing of christians and jews that will be better because it is freedom? Really Patters?


    Now when the revolution happened in Russia China and Cuba the governments that were overthrown were awful however they were replaced by governments that were FAR FAR worse.
  17. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    From your first cited article:

    Around 2000 Copts gathered on Wednesday in Tahrir Square to protest reports that an Egyptian army unit had attacked the Monastery of Saint Pishoy in the Nitrian Desert earlier on Wednesday.

    Protesters said that a military unit using armored vehicles had demolished newly-built fences surrounding the old Coptic monastery. They claimed that the soldiers fired live bullets at monks. They added that two had been injured and transferred to the Anglo-American hospital in Cairo.

    Al-Masry Al-Youm failed to independently verify the reports about the injured monks.


    From your second cited article:

    Last Monday, the army issued an ultimatum to the monastery, demanding the wall be torn down within 48 hours; otherwise, it would act. The monastery did not heed the order.

    After the attack, the military issued a statement on their Facebook page denying that it had attacked the monastery. Instead, it claimed that soldiers simply tore down a fence built on state land.


    From your third cited article:

    Egyptian armed forces this week demolished fences surrounding ancient Coptic monasteries

    Look!! See!! Only the first article says that there were shots fired - and even hey are honest enough to admit there is no collaboration and the report has not been verified. (Which has not, however, stopped every right wing blog in town from picking it up and running with it.)

    The second two articles say that the army tore down illegally built fences.

    Which is, last time I checked, a little bit diffferent than shooting at people.

    As to the video - well, as you've told us so many times in the past - videos lie.

    There's nothing on that video that give a date or a time - and considering it comes from Jihad Watch - I'll wait for something a little more unbiased.
  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course not, that would be absolutely awful. But, there's not an iota of evidence this is policy. The Egyptians right now have what you might call small government, so local governments and local military commanders have inordinate power. Imagine if we had a really weak federal government here that could not enforce the Constitution? What would happen in the deep south to gays, Muslims, illegal immigrants, and other minorities?

    I think that's very debatable in all three cases, but it's really the subject for a different thread.
  19. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    13 its looks like you have a new set of parents, and at the rip old age of 59 or is it 60. You got owned by Mr and Mrs PFIV.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2011
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's a very helpful and mature contribution by you, reflex.
  21. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First thats Your opinion, 13 starts this type of thread quite frequently and both mr and mrs PFiV have schooled him tonight on two seperate threads, they've proven him to be disingenuous, and im being kind in using that word. Third, i don't give a rats azz if you think this is mature or not, this is were i come to be immature at times and this time isn't one of them. Fourth there isn't much of abn "Argument" its pretty obvious at this point its another hysetical thread not backed by the facts.

    I've worked in a number of life and death jobs and i mean that literally. Between 1975 and 2005 ive seen many people die and sometimes had to deal with thier families. About fifteen years ago or so i decided that i was only going to be mature when i had to be, its much less stressful. Like some one said "Its manditory that i grow old, its voluntary that i grow up" You should try it.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2011
  22. patsfan13

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    Attack the source typical all the articles cited are from the last few days.
  23. Patters

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    Personally, I think you can either trust the Coptics or the Egyptian military. PF chooses to trust the Coptics. You choose to trust the military. I'm not sure how one can have a point of view, considering it's unclear who the Egyptian government is and how much do we really know about the Coptic church in Egypt? But, my guess is that there are some rogue elements in Egypt who would take advantage of the current power vacuum to do harm. I think those rogue elements are more likely to be among the military than among the preachers, and I doubt those rogue elements speak for the government.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2011
  24. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    She didn't attack the source.

    In the words of Inigo Montoya...
  25. patsfan13

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  26. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    So who's saying they are not? I'm not commenting on the dates of the articles, 13. I'm pointing out that they don't verify what you're claiming - regardless of when they are from.

    No shots fired except in the first one - and that article is careful to say that it's not verified.

    No one's questioning the dates you've provided - I'm questioning why you claim they back up your heading which says "Egyptian Troops shoot at Monks" when the articles you use to back up your first one (also unverified and not found on any legitimate news-source - including FOX) only talk about fences being removed.
  27. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    who are the "christian haters"? (presumably not haters who are Christian)
  28. patsfan13

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    People who demand ironclad proof of attacks on christian.

    Was their solid proof of the existence of the Gulags, film? Does that mean they didn't exist?

    Do you think there have been attacks on Optics in Egypt? In Sudan?

    Did you read the pronouncements of the MB spirtual head Qaradawi about eliminating Israel.


    Why is it the left is blind to what the Islamist want?
  29. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Aren't you the guy who thought the townhall meeting guy might be a plant?

    You seem to have varying burdens of proof and skepticism yourself.


    probably


    No, but it wouldn't surprise me.


    I don't think they are.

    Do you think the right is blind to what Christianists want?
  30. DarrylS

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    I do not understand this post, is the US supposed to be doing something??

    Do you want to attack Egypt based on a news article??

    Do you want to invade Egypt???

    Thought the consensus was that we needed to stop being the world's police force....

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