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Efficiently Spending On Defense

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Feb 19, 2013.

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  1. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.

    As for your thoughts on improving the pass rush, I think you make some good points. Do you have any particular players in mind they should go after, either in the draft or free agency?
     
  2. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Your depiction of Ninkovich is just ludicrous. I have no idea why you have such a blind spot. But that neither here nor there. Clearly you aren't going to change your opinion on this regardless of the evidence to the contrary, so there is no reason to debate the issue.

    But here is something I'd like to broach. Why do we need a "dominant" pass rusher. Back during the superbowl era, the Pats ranked in the top five in sacks WITHOUT having anyone close to being a top pass rusher.

    IMHO one of the reasons the Pats pass rush has been lacking was because of the lack of secondary talent made it necessary for the Pats NOT be aggressive defensively. Up until the last few games of last season, the Pats have been VERY conservative the last 3 years.

    I think the that the talent gap has been bridged to some extent over the last few years. I believe that one way or the other the secondary play will continue to improve. That means to me that the defense as a whole will improve the pass rush because the defense will become more aggressive. That the blitz rate will grow from the 15% level to the 30% level, and that stat alone will greatly improve the pass rush, WITHOUT the need to find a singular "dominant" pass rusher.

    Granted its certainly not a bad thing to have a great pass rusher, but its not necessary, the Pats had one of the better pass rushes in the league WITHOUT having a single double digit pass rusher when they were a top scoring defense.

    The point being is that while the pass rush needs to be improved, no doubt, I think its a matter of tweaking the rush rather than overhauling it. And as far as improving the interior pass rush, there are 30 teams who are looking to improve that area of the game, so for the Pats to vast improve on that aspect of the game will require a large bit of luck either through the draft, FA, or development of a current player
     
  3. Joey007

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    I think George Wilson would be a great fit. In fact, ditch Gregory and bring him in. I am one who still has faith in Tavon Wilson. So with the mindset that Wilson is the future, the best decision would be to sign a vet S rather than shelling out a high 1st rounder to a safety. The best thing about Wilson is that he'll come relatively cheap. We could spend the bigger bucks on a higher level vet such as Reed or Woodson. But overall, Wilson would be the best value for us.
     
  4. Joey007

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    Partially, I agree with Andy's opinion. I do think we could use another outside pass rusher and that Ninkovich isn't necessarily a consistent option.

    BUT, that doesn't mean he's not a good pass rusher. Ninkovich is perfect as a 3rd down pass rusher, he can come in and consistently bring in clutch performances. I don't think he's quite the answer, but definitely not the problem.
     
  5. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Chandler Jones is strictly a 4-3 DE, however. There is no way he could ever play effectively
    either a 3-4 OLB or a 3-4 DE.
     
  6. Kenneth Sims

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    How would this improve the Pats pass defense? The pass rush would be slowed because your defensive lineman would be dancing with offensive lineman rather than shooting gaps to get after the QB. And, if your 3-4 personnel is Deaderick, Love,Wilfork, Jones,Mayo,Spikes and Hightower, then you can make the argument that Wilfork is the 2nd best cover guy of the group. Yes, I'm exaggerating a little but not much.

    It doesn't matter really because with that alignment they'd be in the nickel or dime 95% of the time anyway.
     
  7. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How did you arrive at this conclusion?
     
  8. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sure he could. Willie McGinest was no more OLB than Jones is.
    The difference is with Jones we have to run the 34 where he is always the 4th rusher rather than the version where either OLB (or sometimes ILB) can be the 4th rusher which is more difficult for an offense to deal with.
    McGinest almost never covered anyone, about as much as any 43 DE does on a zone blitz, or disgusied coverage. Jones can do that.
     
  9. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Calling Ninkoivch a C- pass rusher, and average starting LB below average starting DE is ludicrous? I guess you are clearing his space in Canton:rolleyes:



    What evidence would you be giving that would overcome what I watched him do on the football field?

    Now we are at the point of ludicrous. We dont need _______ because we won without _______.
    That argument could be used for any need the team has.

    Well you are entitled to your opinion. I see a DL that almost never gets pressure and causes the secondary to cover forever.
    What does our pass D look like when we face a poor pass blocking team? We own them.

    We need more pass rush talent. The easiest way is upgrading the mopst critcial rushers. If you want to take the time to upgrade small amounts at all positions, I don't think that will help all to soon.
    We have a severe dearth of individual pass rushing skill on this team.

    On what planet do they have one of the better pass rushes in the league?

    We lack talent. That means overhaul not tweak.

    Every team is trying to be good at everything. I don't think thats a reason to give up.
     
  10. Joey007

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    Scratch that, George signed with the Titans...
     
  11. Deus Irae

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    Y! SPORTS
     
  12. Joey007

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    Could've came cheaper than Gregory.....
     
  13. supafly

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    Some of the reasons that may come to mind:

    --Belichick plans on addressing the safety position in free agency with a more long-term move

    --He may be looking at some of the vets like Reed and Woodson as 1-2 yr stopgaps for immediate future improvement

    --It might be addressed in the draft with a high or mid-round pick

    --They may be higher on Tavon Wilson than we are giving credit to, after all it seemed that Belichick must have really liked him to take him when he did

    --George Wilson's skillset or potential fit just wan't impressive enough

    --any combo of the above
     
  14. Joey007

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    Overall good evaluation, Supafly.
     
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  17. captain stone

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    By watching him play. He's too weak below the waist to effectively stack at the LOS as a 3-4 DE,
    and he's not athletic enough to cover/blitz as a 3-4 OLB.
     
  18. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Jones can do what? Cover? He doesn't have the change of direction ability to do that.
     
  19. EwanSellars

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    trade up next year for stephon tuitt then we will have one of the most dominant pass rushes in the league for years to come
     
  20. betterthanthealternative

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    I'm glad to see this mentioned, and have been wondering about that. There's a reasonable likelihood that he makes a big jump in the second year as his recognitions are quicker and synaptic connections more robust, leading him to faster, more accurate decisions. A half second improvement can make a huge difference back there.
     
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