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Education Secretary Says Katrina Was the "Best Thing" for the New Orleans Schools

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by State, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    Duncan: Katrina Was The "Best Thing" for New Orleans School System - Political Punch
    You know who Arne Duncan is, don't you? He's the former head of Chicago's public schools, which weren't good enough for Obama's children. Not reticent, though, he's inflicting Duncan on the rest of us. Though consistent to the end, Obama is opting out by sending his two daughters to the elite Quaker school Chelsea Clinton attended.

    There's such hypocrisy on the left with public education. Some day the Stupid Party (Republicans) will start winning black supporters by really pushing school choice. Polly Williams of Milwaukee, a former Jesse Jackson supporter, gained national prominence two decades ago by being a big-time supporter of school choice.

    And following the curious logic of this Duncan--I'm in no hurry to send my children to the wonders of New Orleans's public edyukachun--we'd better fire up the nukes for the wretched public system in Detroit, where the scholars there on a nationally administered standardized test, the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), performed just a hair's breath better than if they had never attended school at all and merely guessed at the answers. Brilliant.

    They scored lowest on math in the NAEP's 40-year history.

    Record Low Test Scores In Detroit Underscore The Need For Greater Parental Involvement In The Public Schools - The Detroit Blog - TIME.com

    Are we going to pretend that these kids can be whatever they want to be? Doctors with an 80 IQ? Moms who are teenagers and were themselves raised by not-so-competent teenagers?
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Rebuilding can often lead to something better than was there before. Perhaps that's the case in N.O. Heads should roll in Detroit if the school system is that poor. Kids should strive to be what they want, and they will find their right place. The kid with an 80 IQ who wants to be a doctor may end up being an orderly.
     
  3. DisgruntledTunaFan

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    I was living there when Katrina hit - post-Katrina for the next couple of months ago was a FEMA Martial Law exercise. They even went around decent neighborhoods doing gun confisgation.

    Pretty much - after the disaster hit, FEMA and a big megachurch in the city(which adopted CFR's Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven Life" doctrines) were running things.
     
  4. DarrylS

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    Did you read Zeitoun?? Should be subtitled "Blackwater thugs gone wild"...

    Changing the NOLA educational system is a good thing...

    Will be there for my 5th Mardi Gras next week...
     
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here is a wake up call, most politicians do not send their kids to public schools... it is not unique to Chicago...

    Other than that your rant is a tad nonsensical.. to blame a specific system for a complete systemic failure is a tad shortsighted... if you look at most states those systems who perform best are the "richer" communities, the ones who do worse are the poorer communities..

    It is about money and resources...

    State you surprise me, as you benefitted from Taxpayer education, but getting a free ride to one of the most prestigious schools in the US.. yet you try to beg issues and use anecdotal information to prove a point.. you can do better than that, rise up and act intelligent.. not another right wing knee jerk lemming.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  6. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    You're kidding me.

    Don't you realize that government spending has increased dramatically, with no improvement in education? Check this out:

    President to Call for Big New Ed. Spending.Here’s a Look at How that’s Worked in the Past | Cato @ Liberty

    Here's the chart: http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/wp-content/uploads/Fed-Spend-Ach-Pct-Chg-Cato-Andrew-Coulson1.jpg

    That's just dramatic.

    My point is disjointed, it's true. But since Detroit is not near the Gulf and is not likely to be destroyed by flooding, than if destruction helped the woeful, utterly dysfunctional New Orleans schools, then what about destroying the Detroit schools by nuclear attack?

    I was obviously being facetious, trying my hand at humor. I probably failed miserably.
     
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Your argument is hollow, and you presented this chart a week ago.. I explained then and will explain again.. the first spike was due to the passage of PL 94-142 and the second spike was due to the passage of No Child Left Behind... it is not about unions or the like, it is about intrusion from DC as to how LEA's should administer their educational systems... every time a law is passed there are quite a few rules that follow, and the level of funding is not commensorate with implementation of the regulations... if you do not comply you loose more.. this is Civics 101 as to how the government really works..

    The best way to reduced educational costs is to do away with the Fed. Dept of Ed and return the money expended to the states to spend it dependent on the needs of their population...

    The reality is that the factor as to why different LEA's perform better than others is generally rich communities have better school systems, this is no big secret.. check out the leading test scored in NH.. sure you will find the most affluent communities, i.e. larger tax base, do better than the less affluent communities..

    In RI the two best performing systems, Barrington and East Greenwich, are the most aflluent.. it is what it is..

    Find that from someone who received the most highly subsidized public education, West Point, would rail on the way government spends it money on education...
     
  8. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    My argument is hollow? What's remarkable here is that a public institution so mis-served its intended beneficiaries--students--it was better it was wholly destroyed and started over from scratch. And this from the lips of a cabinet official in charge of the federal Dept. of Education. What a condemnation of public schools!

    And apparently the system in Detroit is, if anything, _worse_.

    Think about it, Darryl. The institution is so irremediably bad that it's better it's destroyed. Like G-d did with people during Noah's time.

    You can call me all the names you want and attack my argument--but you're not addressing the points I've raised, which are devastating.

    And BTW, I'm not suggesting the Secretary of Education is wrong here. I'm suggesting that public education can be really, really bad in some places. So bad it's _immoral_ not to offer an option outside of it for poor people who suffer in it.

    But the system is designed to benefit the employees before the kids. That's the insight from the public choice school of economics (Nobel prize winner James Buchanan) and common sense.
     
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    State, I think you're making a generalization of public schools based on some pretty bad examples. I can certainly find examples of bad charter schools and God knows how many of my Catholic friends have absolute horror stories from their childhoods, but that doesn't mean they're all failing. Public school overall has managed to bring just about every American up to at least a basic level where they are proud to be American, speak English, enoy American sports, and have some basic knowledge. Those who slip through the cracks are usually from such troubled homes that public school is not enough, but given the number of schools systems in the country, there are bound to be some that are not well run.

    While there are some great charter schools out there, the overall record of charter schools is nothing special. For every study that shows they are superior there is a study that shows they are inferior.

    http://epi.3cdn.net/21ddeb2212a90942c7_1bm6bxvvp.pdf

    Further, charter schools are far less accountable than public schools.
     
  10. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Unfortunately, thanks to the liberal policies put in place and supported by the Teachers' Union, it is impossible to make those heads roll. Even the most incompetent teacher are set for life.
     
  11. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    +1. The liberal solution to everything is "raise taxes on the rich and spend more money on the problem." No matter how many times that tired old strategy fails, they still refuse to learn from their mistakes.
     
  12. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    And when those so-called solutions fail--like with the easy money of the Federal Reserve and affirmative action mortgage lending--just give more of the same.

    History and logic don't mean anything. Socialism has been a failure wherever tried, from Mitterand's France to Gorby's Soviet Union, but where are we headed? Socialism.

    It's like the fat man saying he's fat from too much exercise. Capitalism works, socialism fails.

    People could see it clearly when the socialist Robert Heilbronner famously wrote in the New Yorker in 1989 on the heels of the collapse of socialism in the Soviet Union that (Ludwig von) "Mises (the free market economist) was right."

    The Man Who Told the Truth - Reason Magazine
     
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Administrations are not protected by unions. The problem in Detroit surely is not just the teachers. As they say, the fish rots from the top.
     
  14. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    I agree but without the discipline and corrective of competition, it rots. Why is it allowed to rot in the first place?

    Do you know any rotten restaurants? They lose customers and then die. But that's because it's private property and has to compete. Imagine a monopoly fast food chain. That would suck.
     
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would be more open to private charter schools if they were subject to the same amount of transparency that public schools have. That said, the big problem with public charter schools is that it would result in my taxpayer dollars going to foster a class system, where the poor kids end up with the bad kids. I think that's sort of what Britain had in the 19th century.
     
  16. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    How about something simpler? Government gets out of the way? Education is the responsibility of the parents?

    And watch the market boom in services to cater to the new-found responsibility of parents in taking charge.

    Education is too important to leave in the hands of the most nontransparent people on the planet, bureaucrats.

    We all want what's best for the children. But how do we get there. I say capitalism will do a far better job than the government monopoly racket.
     
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who would put together the curriculum? The private companies? The teachers? What about the children of parents who don't really care or cannot afford much by way of education? How would you preserve the American identity (which, State, we all have) with so many different schools with different standards? How would you capture best practices with private enterprise having so much that is proprietary? How would you ensure these companies were transparent, as schools are today, in exactly how the money was spent? How would you prevent a true class system arising out of that? How would this help poor kids realize the American dream? Would you restrict political or religious thought, and for instance allow Jeremiah Wright and Al Sharpton to run schools, as well as Pat Robertson and James Dobson. Do you think that would be good for the country? I do favor public charter schools, which are sometimes, by the way, nonunion, and which bring greater educational creativity into the school system.
     
  18. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    This isn't on the radar. Teachers and the system has a vested interest in keeping it status quo.

    But I'd let parents decide. If it's the David Duke Academy or Jeremiah Wright Hotel, I'd let freedom decide.

    Pretty soon parents would realize that the best for the children is a more traditional approach.

    Like there used to be. Does anybody remember reading about education a hundred years ago? Little House on the Prarie? The high school graduation exams are beyond what most college graduates could do.
     
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You did not read my post.... obviously either that or you have comprehension issues.. the spike had to do with increased government regulations... it is historical fact no matter how you spin it..

    No one called you names..

    The second aspect is that schools that are in "wealthier" areas have better test scores..
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  20. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    Yeah, you blame the increased spending in part to the awful Teddy Kennedy/George Bush No Child Left Behind.

    So? I'm waiting for the punchline. Spending's spending. Somebody's got to pay for it eventually.
     

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