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Education chief favors longer school year

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Feb 28, 2009.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm unsure about this idea. I think one problem with public education during the last 50 or so years is that it has become more geared towards business and less geared towards life in general (with language, arts, sports, and other training). I think it's important to have a healthy balance there, and with school being more and more business oriented, summer vacations are increasingly important.

    Education chief favors longer school year - CNN.com

    Arne Duncan, the Cabinet secretary charged with overhauling America's educational system, is studying programs that keep kids in school longer to boost their academic achievements.

    "When I go out and talk about that, that doesn't always make me popular with students. They like the long summers," Duncan said in an interview Wednesday with CNN conducted in the Education Department's library.

    But Duncan said American students are "at a competitive disadvantage" because the United States has shorter school years than other countries such as India and China.

    "It doesn't matter how poor, how tough the family background, socioeconomic challenges," Duncan said. "Where students have longer days, longer weeks, longer years -- that's making a difference."
     
  2. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Schools and teachers are fine. The school year is fine. Kids need to want to learn and too many (not all) kids from poor families don't want to learn.
     
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is income the determining factor in those who choose not to avail themselves of educational processes?? Too easy an answer for a very complex problem.. there are kids across all economic strata who do not "want" to learn.. a big problem is that a whole bunch of inner city schools flat out suck.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  4. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    It's a generality and an accurate one. I didn't say all poor kids don't want to learn not that all non poor kids do. But it's simply a fact that education is valued more in non poor areas.
     
  5. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    genius idea to extend the school year when the govt has no money other than printing it
     
  6. DarrylS

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    As I said before inner city schools suck, sure you see in Cali a big difference in the affluent burbs school than the inner city.. here in RI the highest performing schools are from the affluent areas have the nicest schools, best extracurricular activities and best resources... the opposite is true in the cities.. it is what it is.. not sure what we can expect from students in an environment that is in shambles... when the resources and facilities are equal than a discussion can ensue.
     
  7. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    it's pretty simple. look at socioeconomic background. it comes down to apartments and triple deckers. the affluent live in the burbs in houses. they're affluent for a reason, usually they value education more and have the formula to success figured out a little more.
     
  8. DarrylS

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    So it has nothing to do with the quality of education offered or the environment in which it is offered??? OTOH some kids just adapt better than others, no matter what the system.. many kids from the city have two working parents.. it goes on and on.. imo like comparing grapefruits to raisins and this is the greatest challenge to any educator..
     
  9. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Well I don't agree because you don't need a lot of resources or great facilities to learn. My kids' school is 50 years old, it's not a modern facility. I know a few inner city teachers, their kids have book. They never read them. It doesn't matter if you have an old book, history, math and english hasn't changed. But you have to want to learn.
     
  10. DarrylS

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    Do you really believe this.. that a newer suburban school with resources is on the same playing field as an inner city school and there is a level playing field??? Education is one area where the great divide is most obvious... time after time when the standardized tests come out, who does best?? And who does worse?? There is anecdotal evidence that some do better, but for the most part this answer is obvious.

    You need an environment condusive to learning, committed teachers, good resource help, kids who want to learn and involved parents... it is not that complicated.
     
  11. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't think I said a level playing field. Just like those who inherit nothing aren't on a level playing field with those who do. But they're on the field, they have their chance and they CAN learn if they want to.

    That's not an argument because it's after the fact of the kids not learning.

    I bet you that if you took an inner city school, the facility, teachers and book and put it in place of my town's school and put our school, books and teachers in the place of the inner city school the kids at each place would do the same. The kids at my town's school would still out perform the inner city kids by a big margin.

    That's because the parents care and they instill the value of education in the kids. Education isn't about the building it's about the kids in the building.
     
  12. DarrylS

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    Not at all convinced of the first part.. but the second part has merit, it is tough to value education when their view of education is different than for example, your view. For many poor inner city folks the parents view of education mirrors their experience, and in many cases it is not positive. Difficult to advocate for a system that did not meet their needs.. and may not be meeting the needs of their own kids.

    Valuing education is extremely important, but if they are not valuing it there may be other factors...
     
  13. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    I am virtually certain about it. Not that I can prove it, of course. But even here the kids who do best are the ones who's parents are involved in making sure they do their homework and their reading. We have kids who do very badly - whose parents don't care.

    BTW, when I say "even here" I'm talking public school in a middle class town, not some ritzy up scale private school.
     
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree, but also think it's an economic-class issue. Kids learn from their parents the skills needed to be at their parents level (in terms of income, education, etc.), and rarely do well enough to leave their parent's class. Poor kids from hard working families become poor hard working parents. The same is true for the middle class.
     
  15. DarrylS

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    You miss my point, some kids succeed despite anything,but many parents in the cities do not have the same point of reference that you do... their educational experience was negative.. so for them to rah rah their own kids experience is difficult, it may not be discouraging for the kids.. but it is somewhere in the middle. The other factor is that a lot of parents work, and being tired at the end of the day... doing the house stuff and then making sure ed stuff is done.. does not happen.

    I am not sure about parents not caring their kids, it is more about them not caring about a system that has not met their own needs and probably will not meet their kids needs... schools are often viewed as something you have to do.. not something you need and want to do.
     
  16. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Clearly. But pouring more money into schools won't change that. Neither a new building nor shiny new books will change that. It is what it is and until the kids and parents choose to change it is what it always will be.
     
  17. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    I know that not everyone can pick their hours but I get up at 4am every day so I can work from 5am-2pm to pick the kids up from school as my wife also works. It's a matter of priorities and I have no idea how someone who doesn't value education can be made to change. I do know that pouring more money in is unlikely to help especially when we already pay $10K-$15K per student per year.
     
  18. DarrylS

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    It is nice to have that luxury of flex hours, but yo cannot extrapolate your personal experience onto a whole group of people who may not have the same flexibility.. most factory or services jobs do not have flexible schedules.. looking at how the world works from your point of view and experience is not how everyone elses world works..
     
  19. MrBigglesWorth

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    even suburban schools differ in resources. some would say inner city schools have more resources with outside you groups, boys and girls clubs, alcohol drug prevention.

    no two schools are the same in terms of quality of education. you ahve good teachers, you have bad.

    many from the burbs have two working parents.

    IMO the city is a lousy place to raise a kid.
     
  20. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Understood, I said that. But you can extrapolate it to priorities. Inner city parents could consider staying together for the sake of the kids. They could not go out at night for the kids. How many "2 parent working families" do you think there are compared to divorced or never married single parent households ? Sorry but the poor need to get their act together before we pour more money down the education drain. They could start by having more 2 parent households. $15K times 32 kids, that's how many are in my kids' classes, that's half a million dollars per classroom per year.
     

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