East-West Shrine practice report

[MetalBleachers]

Meh. Pretty unexciting article, despite some solid interview subjects.

The Associated Press: College stars making impressions at East-West game

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

To answer VJC's question on Olsen: None of these kids is expected to make it into Day One and maybe 2-3 might make it into round 3.

That said, I expect Jarron Gilbert to make a run at the second round if he continues to impress in the game and at the Combine/Pro-Day.

OT Jamon Merideth, OT Fenuki Tupou, and CB Cary Harris are the other prospects who look to have the best chance to go as high as the 3rd.

Olsen is currently carrying a 7/UDFA score for NFL Draft Scout.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

TE Pascoe made a very nice catch in the third Q. He showed a lot as a blocker as well.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Height: 6-7 Weight: 314

Not quite as mammoth as Ryan O'Callaghan (6'7" 330#), but getting there.

[Note for patchick--wrong hair color, but the ugly beard potential is there. ]

I thought the Pats valued athletic linemen more than roadgraders anyways. 314 is more than big enough to be a Pats OT.

Light is listed at 6-4, 305 and Kaczur is listed at 6'4 315.

To answer VJC's question on Olsen: None of these kids is expected to make it into Day One and maybe 2-3 might make it into round 3.

That said, I expect Jarron Gilbert to make a run at the second round if he continues to impress in the game and at the Combine/Pro-Day.

OT Jamon Merideth, OT Fenuki Tupou, and CB Cary Harris are the other prospects who look to have the best chance to go as high as the 3rd.

Olsen is currently carrying a 7/UDFA score for NFL Draft Scout.

So most of these guys are 2nd day stocking stuffers? I'll be interested to see how the Pats perform on the second day of the draft in 2009. It hasn't been very impressive as of late, UDFA gems notwithstanding.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

So most of these guys are 2nd day stocking stuffers? I'll be interested to see how the Pats perform on the second day of the draft in 2009. It hasn't been very impressive as of late, UDFA gems notwithstanding.

You have a point, we seem to hit better with UDFA's than day 2 draft picks last year.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

You have a point, we seem to hit better with UDFA's than day 2 draft picks last year.

Day Two draft picks:

Oakland's 3rd was traded to SD for their second this year. Seems like a good move.
New Orleans 3rd was Crable. I wasn't expecting anymore from him than what we got this year - so far so good.
NE's 3rd was O'Connell - he won the #2 QB job, I'd say that was a successful pick.
Wilhite was NE's 4th, he was starting at the end of the season.
Slater was better on Special Teams than many people give him credit for, I'd say that was decent value in the 5th round.
Ruud went on IR - I wasn't expecting him to do much more this season, hardly a failure.

Let's see, Day Two provided 1 starter, 1 2009 Day One pick, 1 #2 QB, 1 Special Teams Ace, and two developmental Linebackers still with the team. I'd call that a significant improvement over the sucky 2007 draft class.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

First impression from the game: The O-lines dominated. I'm quite comfortable saying the Pats could wait until Day Two for any OL and get some good values - though I'd stay away from Boone (Ohio State).

SS Fitzhugh (Miss. State) stood out in the secondary with good plays in the run game and passing game.

WR Thomas of Arizona and WR Dillard of Rice were the more productive kids in the passing game. Dillard is more of a slot receiver, Thomas isn't much bigger than Welker, but he has more speed to complement Moss and Welker.

Pascoe did have the one nice grab and his blocking was sweet, but I don't see an upside to him at TE - if he put on 40 more pounds he might make a good OL.

DE/LB Shaughnessy may start to slide, if he slips into the late second or into Day Two I'd consider him as a SILB development project. Early in the game he did a nice job of playing down the LOS and fending off Tupou to make a tackle, he also tipped one pass, but he just didn't create any pass rush off the edge against the OTs in this game.

 

[Patdown93]

I go to San Jose State Univ. and I just had to say something about Jarron Gilbert.

That guy was our defense this year. Last year Lowry was a big part of our D and Gilbert was a bigger part this year. He was a freak for us. Plays both DT and DE, I'm not amazingly sure how he'll translate into a 3 - 4 DE but he's a leader. He's the leader of the defense both on the field and off. The other players absolutely adore him. He's a good character guy, smart, likes to learn and wants to learn and works hard to get better.

He was the heart of the team both in terms of on field play and off field leadership.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I go to San Jose State Univ. and I just had to say something about Jarron Gilbert.

That guy was our defense this year. Last year Lowry was a big part of our D and Gilbert was a bigger part this year. He was a freak for us. Plays both DT and DE, I'm not amazingly sure how he'll translate into a 3 - 4 DE but he's a leader. He's the leader of the defense both on the field and off. The other players absolutely adore him. He's a good character guy, smart, likes to learn and wants to learn and works hard to get better.

He was the heart of the team both in terms of on field play and off field leadership.

Thanks for the report, I'm impressed with this kid and think NE would benefit from taking him as early as their second round pick. I truly hope the Pats score big with Cassel, this draft class has me feeling rather greedy.

 

[DaBruinz]

I go to San Jose State Univ. and I just had to say something about Jarron Gilbert.

That guy was our defense this year. Last year Lowry was a big part of our D and Gilbert was a bigger part this year. He was a freak for us. Plays both DT and DE, I'm not amazingly sure how he'll translate into a 3 - 4 DE but he's a leader. He's the leader of the defense both on the field and off. The other players absolutely adore him. He's a good character guy, smart, likes to learn and wants to learn and works hard to get better.

He was the heart of the team both in terms of on field play and off field leadership.

Ok..I was questioning Gilbert as a potential Pats pick early on. However, that has changed. He weighed in at 287 for the East-West game, maning he's a lot closer to the 300 lb mark than not. He's got a motor. And he's got leadership skill. And he was the hardest worker all week. That is more than enough to get him on my board as a potential Pats pick. And, with the Pats needing a DE, Gilbert could definitely be that player.

 

[MetalBleachers]

DE/LB Shaughnessy may start to slide, if he slips into the late second or into Day Two I'd consider him as a SILB development project. Early in the game he did a nice job of playing down the LOS and fending off Tupou to make a tackle, he also tipped one pass, but he just didn't create any pass rush off the edge against the OTs in this game.

Box, did you see Shaughnessy standing up much? I saw him with his hand down but didn't get a sense of him in space.

Was it me, or was this broadcast heavily offense-oriented? It was tough to get a read on defenders' positions and production.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Let's see, Day Two provided 1 starter, 1 2009 Day One pick, 1 #2 QB, 1 Special Teams Ace, and two developmental Linebackers still with the team. I'd call that a significant improvement over the sucky 2007 draft class.

I think the 2007 draft has to be taken on its own terms--the Patriots were basically fully loaded at that point, and except for Justin Rogers, I don't think you can really argue that the Pats cut any rookies that were better than people already on the 53. [Note: If I ever meet Chad Brown, I may deck him. ]

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box, did you see Shaughnessy standing up much? I saw him with his hand down but didn't get a sense of him in space.

Was it me, or was this broadcast heavily offense-oriented? It was tough to get a read on defenders' positions and production.

It was your typically awful ESPN production - not that any of the other networks are any better - poor camera angles, announcers more interested in their discussion than the play on the field, a producer who was most likely an intern, the usual. ESPN shot their wad on basketball coverage; NFL Network has taken over the Senior Bowl, I wish they would also take over the Shrine Game. They wouldn't do any better as far as camera work, but they'd have Mayock and Co. who actually care about the kids playing and talk about them as NFL prospects.

More often defense dominates a game like this because the offensive lines haven't played together long enough to have any cohesion, this is part of why I say this is a deep draft for OL, they were winning the individual battles much too easliy. I need to rewatch this game with remote in hand to get any kind of read on the individual performances.

As for Shaughnessy, the only read I got of his ability standing up was his ball awareness when playing down the line or stopping his pass rush to get his hands up. I'm afraid we're going to have to wait until the Combine to see how he handles the Linebacker drills. My read, based on his performance in this game and in Wisconsin's bowl game, is he has peaked on the edge. Strength and conditioning will help, but not enough to make a difference. I expect to see his stock slide as the draft nears, if he does slip, I believe he becomes a better value as a SILB project. He's got the brains and the heart and the mental toughness, he's got to have good hands to have been as successful as he was off the edge. It would be nice to have a SILB who can go toe-to-toe with OL and drop into coverage like a FS, but I'll take a chance on a kid like this and rely on the Safeties to help out if the offense chooses to pass on first or second down.

 

[mayoclinic]

Let's see, Day Two provided 1 starter, 1 2009 Day One pick, 1 #2 QB, 1 Special Teams Ace, and two developmental Linebackers still with the team. I'd call that a significant improvement over the sucky 2007 draft class.

Overall, the impression was the BB hated the 2007 draft and wanted to trade out. He managed to get Merieweather (at 24), Mayo (in 2008 from trading the 2007 #28 pick), Welker (from trading our 2nd and 7th round picks), a 2009 mid-2nd round pick (from trading our 3rd round to Oakland for a 3rd in 2008, which was traded to SD for a 2nd in 2009) and Randy Moss (for an early 4th picked up in trading #28 to SF). There was some nice talent that we missed out on (Lamar Woodley, David Harris, Stewart Bradley), but it's really hard to see how he could have done much better.

I agree that our 2nd day picks in 2007 were disappointing. But there wasn't much room for them, and looking back at the draft there aren't a lot of players taken after our picks who would have been much better. FB Le'Ron McClain (taken #137 by Baltimore) would have been an improvement over Kareem Brown at 127 in the 4th; K Nick Folk (taken #178 by Dallas) would have been an improvement over Clint Oldenberg at #171 in the 5th, but we had already drafted our K the previous year in Ghost; ILB Brandon Siler (taken #240 by DF) would probably have been a much better player than any of our 2nd day picks and was someone I wanted at the time, but he had been rumored to be a possible Pats pick for some time, and obviously BB saw something he didn't like (rumored to be a combination of attitude and stiff hips). I guess given how well we did with our earlier picks, and how little space we had to actually fit in 2nd day picks, I'm not that disappointed, though I agree the 2nd day in 2007 wasn't one of BB's best efforts.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Overall, the impression was the BB hated the 2007 draft and wanted to trade out. He managed to get Merieweather (at 24), Mayo (in 2008 from trading the 2007 #28 pick), Welker (from trading our 2nd and 7th round picks), a 2009 mid-2nd round pick (from trading our 3rd round to Oakland for a 3rd in 2008, which was traded to SD for a 2nd in 2009) and Randy Moss (for an early 4th picked up in trading #28 to SF). There was some nice talent that we missed out on (Lamar Woodley, David Harris, Stewart Bradley), but it's really hard to see how he could have done much better.

Although I know I risk patchick's wrath for mentioning this, supposedly the Pats were trying to trade up for Bradley, but just weren't able to make it happen before the Eagles nabbed him.

 

[LuthierJr]

Pascoe looked OK in the game. He blocked very well. When the ball was thrown to him he displayed very nice hands. Particularly on a longer throw in the third. Jumping above defenders and reaching out and grabbing it with his hands. Wonderful catch. However he didn't get the ball thrown to him much. Watching him he looked awkward in his routes. He struggled to get open at times.

I think if he can improve his route running and/or with good schemes sitting in zones, and such he would be awesome. If he can't get better at his routes then I'm not so sure. I still like him a lot though and think he shows great promise. You can learn routes (usually...*cough* Jackson/stallworth *cough*), but it's hard to tech good hands. And blocking wise he was excellent.

 

[SteveKiner]

It was your typically awful ESPN production - not that any of the other networks are any better - poor camera angles, announcers more interested in their discussion than the play on the field, a producer who was most likely an intern, the usual. ESPN shot their wad on basketball coverage; NFL Network has taken over the Senior Bowl, I wish they would also take over the Shrine Game. They wouldn't do any better as far as camera work, but they'd have Mayock and Co. who actually care about the kids playing and talk about them as NFL prospects.

More often defense dominates a game like this because the offensive lines haven't played together long enough to have any cohesion, this is part of why I say this is a deep draft for OL, they were winning the individual battles much too easliy. I need to rewatch this game with remote in hand to get any kind of read on the individual performances.

As for Shaughnessy, the only read I got of his ability standing up was his ball awareness when playing down the line or stopping his pass rush to get his hands up. I'm afraid we're going to have to wait until the Combine to see how he handles the Linebacker drills. My read, based on his performance in this game and in Wisconsin's bowl game, is he has peaked on the edge. Strength and conditioning will help, but not enough to make a difference. I expect to see his stock slide as the draft nears, if he does slip, I believe he becomes a better value as a SILB project. He's got the brains and the heart and the mental toughness, he's got to have good hands to have been as successful as he was off the edge. It would be nice to have a SILB who can go toe-to-toe with OL and drop into coverage like a FS, but I'll take a chance on a kid like this and rely on the Safeties to help out if the offense chooses to pass on first or second down.

Good analysis of the ESPN production and especially of Matt Shaughnessy. I have watched him since his freshman year at Wisconsin and never really projected him as an ILB but what you say makes sense. He is a very intelligent and tough player. At 6'6 I thought he might be a little tall for ILB but he certainly seems to have the awareness and coachability. In the shrine game, I thought he had a good game as an edge player. One of the tackles that he went against, Oregon's Tupou, is supposed to be highly ranked (projected in the 3rd)and Shaughnessy had no trouble bull rushing him into the backfield or shedding him on runs. Maybe Tupou was hurt because he played very little if at all in the second half at LT. The other tackle Rottier from Canada did better against Shaughnessy on some plays, but overall I thought Matt had a real good game in the Shrine game. A couple tackles for loss and at least 2 tipped passes.(I think he also tipped the one that got intercepted in the 2nd quarter.) He got some good pressure on the QB and just missed at least one sack. But that seems to happen with him alot. He does everything right and then just misses finishing the play. Hopefully that is something that can be taught. NFL Draft Scout projects him in the 4th and they mention his lack of burst. Some of that may be due to his not being 100% from his leg injuries but if he drops into the 4th and is healthy, I think he could be a steal.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Good analysis of the ESPN production and especially of Matt Shaughnessy. I have watched him since his freshman year at Wisconsin and never really projected him as an ILB but what you say makes sense. He is a very intelligent and tough player. At 6'6 I thought he might be a little tall for ILB but he certainly seems to have the awareness and coachability. In the shrine game, I thought he had a good game as an edge player. One of the tackles that he went against, Oregon's Tupou, is supposed to be highly ranked (projected in the 3rd)and Shaughnessy had no trouble bull rushing him into the backfield or shedding him on runs. Maybe Tupou was hurt because he played very little if at all in the second half at LT. The other tackle Rottier from Canada did better against Shaughnessy on some plays, but overall I thought Matt had a real good game in the Shrine game. A couple tackles for loss and at least 2 tipped passes.(I think he also tipped the one that got intercepted in the 2nd quarter.) He got some good pressure on the QB and just missed at least one sack. But that seems to happen with him alot. He does everything right and then just misses finishing the play. Hopefully that is something that can be taught. NFL Draft Scout projects him in the 4th and they mention his lack of burst. Some of that may be due to his not being 100% from his leg injuries but if he drops into the 4th and is healthy, I think he could be a steal.

NFL Draft Scout provided a spread sheet with the Shrine Game weigh-ins from the cattle call. Shaughnessy was 6' 5 1/8" 260 with 33 7/8" arms and 10 3/4" hands.

If NE wants a smart, strong, LB who can stack & shed OL, plays well in trash, can jam the TE on inside releases, and provide an interior pass rush on blitzes, I have to think he's worth a look. Ted Johnson was 6'4" 253. Mike Vrabel has played well subbing in at ILB at 6'4" 260. I just think a smart, tough kid like Shaughnessy could learn the job.

He'd be handicapped covering shifty RBs, but then all the NE LBs are bigger guys who struggle in coverage match-ups with the Brian Westbrooks and Kevin Faulks. Since I'm looking for a two-down LB who can play his underneath zone if they pass on a "run" down I'm not too concerned if he's not glued to jitterbug receivers in coverage. What would be critical for him is a nose for the ball and the work ethic for the extra film study and time with the coaches and veterans to learn the keys he'd need to read playing off the line inside.

I'm targeting Clint Sintim in this draft for exactly that kind of SILB role, Shaughnessy is looking like another potential DE/OLB to ILB project. I like Sintim better because he already plays 3-4 OLB for Virginia - he's probably the LB most ready to play at OLB for NE (if he needs more time to learn ILB or can't make the switch he's not a loss as a draft pick, Thomas moves inside and Sintim backstops Woods & Vrabel).

 

[mgcolby]

A guy I seen play quite a bit this season was Frantz Joseph from FAU and I was shocked to see that he is projected as a 6th round pick. He was all over the field, I would love for the Pats to take a flyer on him in the draft. I don't know if his low projection is due to the conference he played in or what, but he is as good as any LB I watched this season.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

A guy I seen play quite a bit this season was Frantz Joseph from FAU and I was shocked to see that he is projected as a 6th round pick. He was all over the field, I would love for the Pats to take a flyer on him in the draft. I don't if his low projection is due to the conference he played in or what, but he is as good as any LB I watched this season.

I watched him in their bowl game, I don't see him as a fit for NE's 3-4. He'll probably get drafted late by somebody like Jacksonville and wind up starting.