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Dunlap at 3-4 End down the road?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Charles Barwin, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. Charles Barwin

    Charles Barwin Practice Squad Player

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    I get the feeling Carlos Dunlap could play 3-4 OLB with limited coverage responsibilities, as well as 4-3 end. But it also seems that he could excel as a 3-4 end down the road as well.

    His upper body is under-developed, and he could easily beef up to 300 pounds or whatever weight he was asked to play at.

    Since he just turned 21, and is more than 2 years younger than Suh and other prospects, he is still very much developing physically, despite his huge frame.

    Griffen and Graham are a lot closer to being maxed out physically than Dunlap, who is significantly taller than both.

    Dunlap is 18 months younger than Alex Carrington, and a full year younger than McCoy and Odrick.

    Dunlap has plenty of question marks, but his proven production at the highest level over multiple years, incredible natural physique and talent, extreme positional versatility, and young age make me think that he would be a gamble well worth taking at 22.

    He could probably play linebacker and end in the 3-4 in the same series, this year, and allow for disguising of formation.

    Can anybody else see him playing 3-4 end on passing downs this year?
     
  2. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If NE drafts him that's where I see him - not at OLB. That said, 3-4 DE is not a glamour position, some heart is needed to take the job.
     
  3. StraightCashHomey81

    StraightCashHomey81 Practice Squad Player

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    I think he lacks the high level of physicality and toughness to play 3-4 DE, and I also think it would be a waste of his immense athletic ability. Part of Dunalp's appeal is that at his tremendous size, 6-6 285 lbs, he has the quickness, speed, and flexibility to run the arc and get to the passer. As a 5-technique, he would just be a rich man's Jarvis Green, with the ability to rush the passer on passing downs but someone who may be a liability against stronger OTs vs. the run. Like Dunlap, I think McGinest had the frame (and perhaps more want-to and toughness) to bulk up to 5-technique size, but it would have been wasting his best and most valuable talent (rushing the passer).

    That being said, I don't want Dunlap unless BB gets an absolute lead-pipe guarantee from Meyer that Dunlap can mature with his effort and off-the-field issues. And given the Chad Jackson Experience and I would still be wary if I was BB.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  4. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't see the toughness to play 3-4 end but could see him playing around 275 in a similar role to McGinest / Vrabel.
     
  5. Charles Barwin

    Charles Barwin Practice Squad Player

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    Dunlap playing 3-4 end in some passing situations would be all we need out of him, and more than we could expect from every other prospect we're looking at at OLB.

    As an OLB, Dunlap could use his great reach to swat down passes (6 passes defended last year), and his great reach and strength to keep blockers at bay in run defense.

    Dunlap would be a much better run defender than Hughes or Kindle, and probably at least as good as Graham in this area.

    In limited coverage situations, I think Dunlap could do just fine. He has great balance and covers an impressive amount of ground with his long strides. I think he could do just fine against bigger, slower tight ends and running backs in limited situations.

    But basically Dunlap's job would be to get after the passer, which he could excel at in 3 different positions for us.

    If BB values versatility, Dunlap would seem to represent the most versatility in a DE I've seen in a few years.

    Hopefully Meyer gives BB the thumbs up, the Pats grab him at 22, and Dunlap actually follows through on his maturing.
     
  6. Charles Barwin

    Charles Barwin Practice Squad Player

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    Dunlap playing 3-4 end in some passing situations would be all we need out of him, and more than we could expect from every other prospect we're looking at at OLB.

    As an OLB, Dunlap could use his great reach to swat down passes (6 passes defended last year), and his great reach and strength to keep blockers at bay in run defense.

    Dunlap would be a much better run defender than Hughes or Kindle, and probably at least as good as Graham in this area.

    In limited coverage situations, I think Dunlap could do just fine. He has great balance and covers an impressive amount of ground with his long strides. I think he could do just fine against bigger, slower tight ends and running backs in limited situations.

    But basically Dunlap's job would be to get after the passer, which he could excel at in 3 different positions for us.

    If BB values versatility, Dunlap would seem to represent the most versatility in a DE I've seen in a few years.

    Hopefully Meyer gives BB the thumbs up, the Pats grab him at 22, and Dunlap actually follows through on his maturing.
     
  7. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    He's in that 270 size that's really too slow for OLB and small for 3-4 end. He does have athletic ability so maybe he could make the transition to olb, but he wouldn't make it as a 3-4 end where you need at times to consume 2 300+ lb blockers so the LBs can do their job.

    To utilize him best right away would be to make him a DE in a 4-3.
     
  8. Hok

    Hok Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    He ran a 4.71 at the combine. That's in the same range as 3-4 OLB candidates like Jerry Hughes (4.69), Brandon Graham (4.72), Sergio Kindle (4.71), and Ricky Sapp (4.70).

    He weighed in at 277lbs at the combine, a mere eight pounds lighter than Jarvis Green's listed weight. I wouldn't play Dunlap at end in run situations, but he could easily slide inside on third downs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  9. Charles Barwin

    Charles Barwin Practice Squad Player

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    Dunlap could weigh whatever BB wanted him to weigh by Week 1. At a strong 285, he just might be able play the 3 positions discussed.

    Dunlap had a lot of success rushing from the inside as a DT too. I think he would be an excellent pass rusher at 3-4 end, at 285, 290, 295, or whatever he needed to be.

    When lined up at OLB, he could also switch with Mayo or Guyton before the snap and move inside to blitz.

    Here is the interview of coach Meyer after Dunlap's arrest. Dunlap was likely part of the reason Meyer had health issues at the end of the year.
    youtube.com/ watch?v=rtMyiduCIqc&feature=related
     
  10. Badluck

    Badluck On the Game Day Roster

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    if hes there at 44 i would take him in a heartbeat
     
  11. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    The Pats don't use a 3-4 in passing situations. They use basic nickel D with 4 DL. And I don't think he can play OLB. Add that to his character issues, and he's completely off my board. Given last year's locker room issues, the Pats need lunch pail guys and leadership qualities.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  12. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    If you look at his other numbers (3-cone, vertical, broad) he is not a top performer and wouldn't be a better choice at OLB as those other guys. As we know, BB likes a OLB who can run in the 4.6s anyway.

    Jarvis Green would never make it as a 16 game starter as a 3-4 DE. He was always his best at playing end in the nickle. Him and Green are similar.
     
  13. Charles Barwin

    Charles Barwin Practice Squad Player

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    "As we know, BB likes a OLB who can run in the 4.6s anyway."

    Dunlap ran a 4.62 at his pro day.

    BB also likes tall, strong, versatile OLBs who can defend against the run as well as rush the passer.

    Dunlap would be our best OLB against the run easily, but also probably our best pass rusher.

    Bucky makes a good point about a fragile locker room in need of a strong statement from management in who gets drafted.

    We'll find out what Meyer thinks of Dunlap (2.9 GPA) when and if he is on the board at 22.
     
  14. Charles Barwin

    Charles Barwin Practice Squad Player

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    "As we know, BB likes a OLB who can run in the 4.6s anyway."

    Dunlap ran a 4.62 at his pro day.

    BB also likes tall, strong, versatile OLBs who can defend against the run as well as rush the passer.

    Dunlap would be our best OLB against the run easily, but also probably our best pass rusher.

    Bucky makes a good point about a fragile locker room in need of a strong statement from management in who gets drafted.

    We'll find out what Meyer thinks of Dunlap (2.9 GPA) when and if he is on the board at 22.
     
  15. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    From the neck down there is no player in the past dozen drafts that reminds me of McGinest more Dunlap. I see Dunlap as a power OLB, ala Vrabel. He won't get a lot of speed sacks, instead he will get power sacks with big rips and winning hand fights and by turning OT's with strength and leverage.

    Against the run I see Dunlap excelling at sealing the edge and forcing everything back inside to Mayo.

    However I do have serious questions regarding Dunlap's ability to stay out of trouble, especially given where he grew up and what poor judgement he showed prior to the SEC championship game.

    If the Patriots had the strong locker room of years past, then I would feel comfortable drafting this kid and letting a Seymour, Vrabel, McGinest, Brucshi or Harrison mold this kid correctly. But this new locker room is probably not an environment where a kid like Dunlap needs to be.

    Bottom line is if BB thinks his locker room can keep Dunlap focused on working hard and playing it straight, then I would not be surprised to see BB take him at #22.
     
  16. patsfan55

    patsfan55 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I am one of Dunlap's biggest fans on here. Personally I see a lot of Willie in this guy. On the field I think he could do a lot of the things big Willie Mac used to do. The question is does he have the passsion for the game and is he willing to change his lifestyle a bit. If both those questions are answered with a yes then I pray we grab him at 22.
     
  17. patsfan55

    patsfan55 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Exactly, our olbs need to be fast AND strong. We can have one that has more speed than strength (see Colvin, Tully Banta-Cain) and one that has more strength than speed (see Willie McGines, Mike Vrabel). The guy doesn't have to be a track star to set the edge, bull rush, and chip tight ends. He needs to be able control the man lined up in front of him.
     
  18. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I guess I'm in the minority, but I think Dunlap can excel as a OLB in our system. So did mayoclinic, God rest his soul.
     
  19. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Yes, let's draft the least immature college kid we can, because BB LOVES to draft underclassmen with DUI problems who think that partying out and DRINKING the night before an important football game is way more important than playing in it!!

    Are we that desperate for talent that we're willing to overlook all character issues? Have the Patriots become the new Bengals? Of course I also heard some of these very same fans urge the Pats to sign Michael "the dogkiller" Vick and Terrell "the teamkiller" Owens. So I guess it shouldn't surprise me how low moral standards have dropped. I guess I'm the only one who cares about that.

    Well maybe Kraft agrees, so in the end, we won't be signing those type of people after all. Much to the disappointment of the fans of the 'convicts and punks' team-building approach.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2010
  20. glm

    glm Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Besides that incedent, can you point out any other incedents.

    The answer is no.

    Seriously, way to overreact.
     
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