Dumervil going to Ravens

[patfanken]

Don't bother. At the same time don't take offense either. The popular thought has to be that (in this specific order):

1. Baltimore is in cap hell (February)

2. Baltimore has screwed themselves and all of their players left them, certainly not the other way around (March)

3. Even IF Baltimore ends up staying competitive by making some viable replacements, they'll surely suffer in the years to come (April)

I honestly believe that Newsome chose to do things a bit differently this time around after winning the SB, due to having some issues last time with overpaying to keep everyone intact. Only time will tell if they can stay competitive or they'll be the next Cleveland Browns with decades of losing seasons.

No I think Newsome is being very smart about this. He couldn't have picked a better time to spend a year taking on a huge contract in Flacco, and resetting his cap situation, which had gotten precarious. He just won the superbowl and has a lot of picks this year. If there was a year to bite the bullet, this was it.

Like BB in 2010-12 he is starting to build the next iteration of the Baltimore Ravens around Joe Flacco. He will try and do it as seamlessly as BB did, but if the Ravens do hit a hiccup this year, what better year to do it. Meantime Ozzie will be well on the way to rebuilding his roster and getting his cap situation under control

Don't mistake my opinion that the Ravens will have a lot of problems this season, unless they hit on about 5 starters this draft, with the impression I think Newsome is not being smart. He IS one of the top GM's in the league, and being willing to take a possible hit this season just proves it.

 

[patsfan-1982]

good sign by the ravens he's a upgrade over Paul Kruger and he's only 2 years older then Kruger and cost less money

 

[Brady2Moss]

No I think Newsome is being very smart about this. He couldn't have picked a better time to spend a year taking on a huge contract in Flacco, and resetting his cap situation, which had gotten precarious. He just won the superbowl and has a lot of picks this year. If there was a year to bite the bullet, this was it.

Like BB in 2010-12 he is starting to build the next iteration of the Baltimore Ravens around Joe Flacco. He will try and do it as seamlessly as BB did, but if the Ravens do hit a hiccup this year, what better year to do it. Meantime Ozzie will be well on the way to rebuilding his roster and getting his cap situation under control

Don't mistake my opinion that the Ravens will have a lot of problems this season, unless they hit on about 5 starters this draft, with the impression I think Newsome is not being smart. He IS one of the top GM's in the league, and being willing to take a possible hit this season just proves it.

Mistake 1 has already been made.

Building around Joe Flaccid.

 

[Sciz]

Understanding that different posters refer to different names etc, what if they used Dumervil as the full time "rush" LB that Kruger held last year, and used Suggs as the Will/weakside LB where he'd still get opportunities? Isn't that what they did when Suggs came back from injury?

Wildcard: Suggs 72%, Kruger 77%, Upshaw 43%
Divisional: Suggs 78%, Kruger 93%, Upshaw 27%
AFCCG: Suggs 87%, Kruger 96%, Upshaw 17%
Super Bowl: Suggs 94%, Kruger 35%, Upshaw 68%

These are how the snaps split for each of the playoff games, and I think it gives a good indication of how the Ravens should use each player, with Dumervil in Kruger's spot. In the Wildcard round against the pass-happy Colts, I think that had Suggs been healthy enough for more snaps, they would have come at Upshaw's expense, and similarly in the Divisional round against the Broncos. I think the splits against the Pats are the best example of what they can do with Dumervil in Kruger's spot next season. Against primarily passing teams, they can put Suggs and Dumervil on the ends and just pin their ears back.

What shocked me is how little Kruger was used in the Super Bowl. The 49ers were obviously much more of a running threat than the Colts, Broncos, or Pats, and the extended use of Upshaw reflected that.

So I'd say that against passing teams, they can definitely use Dumervil in close to a full time role. It's just not worth putting Upshaw on the field when the vastly greater threat is the pass. However, there will be teams where they definitely won't want Dumervil on the field at all times, so I wouldn't necessarily call Dumervil a full time player, but a part time player who can range anywhere from 30% to 100% of the defensive snaps depending on the opponent and the situation.

I'd say that one concern for the Pats when playing the Ravens next year would be being able to run the ball well enough that they can get the Ravens out of their nickel package that consists of Dumervil rather than Upshaw and an extra CB on the field in place of one of their defensive linemen. They were completely unable to do it in the AFCCG, but the availability of Gronkowski, the addition of Ballard, and the improved healthy of Vollmer would all be very beneficial, if they happen.

 

[supafly]

Mistake 1 has already been made.

Building around Joe Flaccid.

You are probably very right.

That said, I think they were in a strange situation due to the overinflation of the QB market in general, and it's hard not to award a guy who has taken his team to the playoffs (and benefitted from other areas like any QB) in all 5 of his seasons as their QB. On top of that, he didn't just take him there, he actually won at least one playoff game in every single season, and went to the AFCCG 3/5 times.

While I definitely agree with you that Flacco's talent is overrated, they seem to think that they can use him as somewhat of a game manager, and it's hard to ignore his success in deserving a contract that will be comparable to the Stafford's and Ryan's of the world--as soon as they do their deals. After all, he has at least proven himself, unlike them, even if he is an overall "worse" QB in sheer talent and skillset (in many opinions including my own).

In other words, he's overpaid at the moment...but that will quickly change in the next 6 months or so, maybe 12 at the most.

No I think Newsome is being very smart about this. He couldn't have picked a better time to spend a year taking on a huge contract in Flacco, and resetting his cap situation, which had gotten precarious. He just won the superbowl and has a lot of picks this year. If there was a year to bite the bullet, this was it.

Like BB in 2010-12 he is starting to build the next iteration of the Baltimore Ravens around Joe Flacco. He will try and do it as seamlessly as BB did, but if the Ravens do hit a hiccup this year, what better year to do it. Meantime Ozzie will be well on the way to rebuilding his roster and getting his cap situation under control

Don't mistake my opinion that the Ravens will have a lot of problems this season, unless they hit on about 5 starters this draft, with the impression I think Newsome is not being smart. He IS one of the top GM's in the league, and being willing to take a possible hit this season just proves it.

Exactly. I think the only issue that we have differing opinions on is the fact that you see a bigger downfall for them this season, where I see the same kind of team that will be 1-2 games over .500--as they often are. I think the parity of their division and their AFCE opponents also benefit them to finish with a 9-7 or even 10-6 record, where you may see them closer to 8-8 or even worse. Other than that our only other disagreement is exactly how many holes they'll need to fill--which is likely irrelevant anyway in the big picture. Just so we're clear the only other teams I hate more are PIT and the NYJ. I even like the division teams more than BAL, although that may be skewed due their perceived harmlessness lately...

 

[supafly]

I'd say that one concern for the Pats when playing the Ravens next year would be being able to run the ball well enough that they can get the Ravens out of their nickel package that consists of Dumervil rather than Upshaw and an extra CB on the field in place of one of their defensive linemen. They were completely unable to do it in the AFCCG, but the availability of Gronkowski, the addition of Ballard, and the improved healthy of Vollmer would all be very beneficial, if they happen.

I think that besides the fact that we had the ball in what is normally FG range (inside the 35) a whopping 8 times and came away with 13 pts, the inability to run vs their nickel defense in a major playoff setting once again was the absolute worst feeling out of all of the key aspects. It felt like the 2010 season's playoff loss to the NYJ all over again, especially when that was supposedly addressed and we were ready for it.

So, understanding that Abraham will likely be closer to a full-time player than Dumervil, which is also one of the reasons I didn't see need or value for acquiring Dumervil over Abraham, what kind of split would you project should be sign here in the next couple/few days?

You stated a 30-100% potential for Dumervil, based on the specific opponent's attack via run or pass. I would imagine that you'd see something closer to a 50-100% split with Abraham, give or take 10% down to 40 or 10% up to 60. Would that be a fair assumption?

 

[Sciz]

So, understanding that Abraham will likely be closer to a full-time player than Dumervil, which is also one of the reasons I didn't see need or value for acquiring Dumervil over Abraham, what kind of split would you project should be sign here in the next couple/few days?

You stated a 30-100% potential for Dumervil, based on the specific opponent's attack via run or pass. I would imagine that you'd see something closer to a 50-100% split with Abraham, give or take 10% down to 40 or 10% up to 60. Would that be a fair assumption?

I probably wouldn't expect that much from Abraham. He was a 69% player last year, only hit 90% once, and only hit 80% five times in 18 games. I think he'd be a little less with the Pats since he'd be splitting time with Ninkovich, although I could also see Jones getting some time inside in subpackages, in which case it wouldn't be as simple as Jones, Ninkovich, and Abraham splitting 200% of the snaps, perhaps closer to 220, which could be done by giving Jones 90% of the snaps and Ninkovich and Abraham each 65%. Of course, an injury to either Jones or Ninkovich would probably sharply increase Abraham's snaps, as a slightly more tired Abraham is still probably better than Francis, Cunningham, or Bequette.

Here's Abraham's percentage of snaps for each game:
71 78 66 91 65 68 63 74 52 86 65 78 87 81 59 60 22 80 69

 

[Sicilian]

I think that besides the fact that we had the ball in what is normally FG range (inside the 35) a whopping 8 times and came away with 13 pts, the inability to run vs their nickel defense in a major playoff setting once again was the absolute worst feeling out of all of the key aspects. It felt like the 2010 season's playoff loss to the NYJ all over again, especially when that was supposedly addressed and we were ready for it

It didn't help that just when it seemed we were establishing some momentum in the running game, Pollard knocked Ridley out. Not that it necessarily would have continued, but I remember feeling oddly optimistic right before that happened. It was just a rough game all around.

 

[Brady2Moss]

You are probably very right.

That said, I think they were in a strange situation due to the overinflation of the QB market in general, and it's hard not to award a guy who has taken his team to the playoffs (and benefitted from other areas like any QB) in all 5 of his seasons as their QB. On top of that, he didn't just take him there, he actually won at least one playoff game in every single season, and went to the AFCCG 3/5 times.

While I definitely agree with you that Flacco's talent is overrated, they seem to think that they can use him as somewhat of a game manager, and it's hard to ignore his success in deserving a contract that will be comparable to the Stafford's and Ryan's of the world--as soon as they do their deals. After all, he has at least proven himself, unlike them, even if he is an overall "worse" QB in sheer talent and skillset (in many opinions including my own).

In other words, he's overpaid at the moment...but that will quickly change in the next 6 months or so, maybe 12 at the most.



Exactly. I think the only issue that we have differing opinions on is the fact that you see a bigger downfall for them this season, where I see the same kind of team that will be 1-2 games over .500--as they often are. I think the parity of their division and their AFCE opponents also benefit them to finish with a 9-7 or even 10-6 record, where you may see them closer to 8-8 or even worse. Other than that our only other disagreement is exactly how many holes they'll need to fill--which is likely irrelevant anyway in the big picture. Just so we're clear the only other teams I hate more are PIT and the NYJ. I even like the division teams more than BAL, although that may be skewed due their perceived harmlessness lately...

Agree completely. They were screwed cant let him walk they aren't getting anyone better but now are devoting 15-20% of their cap to a game manager. Without a good defense or Boldin catching his Hail Flaccos they're going to go 9-7 or worse. It's hard to build a complete roster when the QB takes up huge amount of cap even when you have TFB as your QB to cover up holes. It'll be funny watching joe flacco try to cover up the holes that'll be appearing in the ravens roster throughout the duration of this contract.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

The Flacco contract may not have been a mistake given the QB market and his importance to their success, but it's still going to hurt the Ravens not having him at such an affordable rate as they did from '08-'12. They really had a big advantage over other contenders when your franchise QB is not being paid like one and getting quality playoff performances from him, some VERY good performances this year and in 2011's AFCC. Now they have to face the task that teams like us, PIT, NYG, GB, etc have faced for years in building a solid cast while alotting a huge chunk of your cap in one guy.

 

[Deus Irae]

Agree completely. They were screwed cant let him walk they aren't getting anyone better but now are devoting 15-20% of their cap to a game manager. Without a good defense or Boldin catching his Hail Flaccos they're going to go 9-7 or worse. It's hard to build a complete roster when the QB takes up huge amount of cap even when you have TFB as your QB to cover up holes. It'll be funny watching joe flacco try to cover up the holes that'll be appearing in the ravens roster throughout the duration of this contract.

The Flacco contract may not have been a mistake given the QB market and his importance to their success, but it's still going to hurt the Ravens not having him at such an affordable rate as they did from '08-'12. They really had a big advantage over other contenders when your franchise QB is not being paid like one and getting quality playoff performances from him, some VERY good performances this year and in 2011's AFCC. Now they have to face the task that teams like us, PIT, NYG, GB, etc have faced for years in building a solid cast while alotting a huge chunk of your cap in one guy.

Teams like NE, BAL, GB, NOR and Pittsburgh have been able to do it and still remain largely at the top of the heap. It's why you pay the elite QBs. Flacco's shown he can win a Super Bowl, so that's not an issue. The question that will be answered moving forward is whether he's more Eli or more Peyton/Brady/Rodgers/Brees/Roethlisberger.

 

[Whitt25]

Flacco's shown he can win a Super Bowl, so that's not an issue. The question that will be answered moving forward is whether he's more Eli or more Peyton/Brady/Rodgers/Brees/Roethlisberger.

I'm sorry. Are you implying that Eli is in a class of his own? Maybe if the class involves stupid, ridiculous luck, sure, but definitely not skill.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm sorry. Are you implying that Eli is in a class of his own? Maybe if the class involves stupid, ridiculous luck, sure, but definitely not skill.

No, I'm comparing guys who get their teams into the playoffs pretty consistently when they're healthy to a guy who gets there much more inconsistently.

 

[Whitt25]

Oh, ok. Kinda scared me there. lmao. I think I got confused 'cause Eli's name came first, then everyone else, instead of the opposite. My bad.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh, ok. Kinda scared me there. lmao. I think I got confused 'cause Eli's name came first, then everyone else, instead of the opposite. My bad.

No problem, and


:welcome: