Dumervil going to Ravens

[FoxboroFlyer]

It is great for them this year. If Dumervil ends up being a bust though, they are stuck with him though. Assuming he lives up to expectations, it is a good deal.

I think he's far enough into his career that the potential "bust" label can be dispelled.

Ravens hit a homerun, with this deal.

 

[Sciz]

Um. Before anyone gets carried away with laughing at the Ravens, for this deal...maybe you should do some research...they protected themselves with this deal, and he only counts as a 2.5 mill. Cap hit this year.

It's being termed as a "steal of a deal" for them.

If we pay an aged abraham, or freeney close to that it's an epic fail (2.5 cap hit this year).

Base value of 5 years, for 26 million is a steal....that's what they got him for.

Getting a player for a super low first year cap hit isn't the sign of a good team, it's the sign of a desperate one. What do they do next year when Flacco's cap hit doubles and Dumervil's cap hit probably doubles?

 

[Rob0729]

I think he's far enough into his career that the potential "bust" label can be dispelled.

Ravens hit a homerun, with this deal.

Every free agent acquisition has bust potential. A free agent can go bust for any number of reasons. Look at Mario Williams last year. In fact, quite a few stud free agents turn out to be busts with their new teams. Different systems. Player gets content. Wrong fit. Whatever.

Dumervil isn't even what I would call a stud. He is a very good player, but he isn't a top tier pass rusher. He isn't all that good vs. the run (although I think he is a bit underrated because people think he absolutely sucks).

 

[Mack Herron]

Well it's pretty easy to come off that edge like that when no-one engages you. If Solder stays with him that sack probably never happens. Dumervil got that sack on a rookie mistake.

It was Waters who missed the block.

 

[Grayrider16]

Just my two cents but this was a whopper of a contract from the Ravens for Elvis. Ellerbe was way more important for their defense to retain and even Kruger may have, MAY HAVE, been a better cog for their scheme. Weird singing for that kind of money IMO.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Getting a player for a super low first year cap hit isn't the sign of a good team, it's the sign of a desperate one. What do they do next year when Flacco's cap hit doubles and Dumervil's cap hit probably doubles?

I didn't realize flacco's cap hit doubles next year...either way i'm sure they are preparing accordingly.

My point is dumervil, at this contract, is superior to what any team including our own will pay abraham, or freeney....that's all.

Edit: yeah, flacco's contract isnt "doubling" next next year...not even close.

 

[Brady6]

Yes. I think so. I suppose he could still turn things around, but I don't see him playing many snaps this year. His technique is poor. He doesn't just give up ground (i.e. lack some strength or leverage), he gets knocked down often and way too easily, like his balance is off. The number of snaps where he is on the ground within 1 second is astounding. He was a large reason why our up the middle run defense was so bad last year. That and Ray Lewis being way way slow and seemingly weak as well (would get dragged for multiple yards every tackle, if he even could make the tackle).

He needs to slim down IMO. 360 pound nose tackles aren't effective in this league anymore.

 

[Sciz]

He needs to slim down IMO. 360 pound nose tackles aren't effective in this league anymore.

He slimmed down for the 2011 season and thought it really limited his effectiveness. I don't think he'll try that again.

 

[Brady6]

There it is

I like the signing for the Ravens despite having some questions about how he will fit into their scheme. Unless they use him only as a sub pass rusher like Kruger last year. They generally play 3 bigs, Suggs and a SAM LB with 2 ILB.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

Every free agent acquisition has bust potential. A free agent can go bust for any number of reasons. Look at Mario Williams last year. In fact, quite a few stud free agents turn out to be busts with their new teams. Different systems. Player gets content. Wrong fit. Whatever.

Dumervil isn't even what I would call a stud. He is a very good player, but he isn't a top tier pass rusher. He isn't all that good vs. the run (although I think he is a bit underrated because people think he absolutely sucks).

Mario Williams, was hurt last year.

His contract,and Dumervil's isn't comparable.

Baltimore won out in this one.

It's all about value. Imo, a 29 year old dumervil at a guaranteed 5 mill. A year, is a great signing.

 

[VrabelJr]

He fits into the Ravens scheme perfectly. His best year was as a Jack in a 3-4. This further supports my belief that Courtney Upshaw is moving to ILB.

 

[Joey007]

Matching players to teams here-

Dumervil to Baltimore.
Osi to Atlanta.
Freeney to Denver.
Abraham to New England.
Harrison to New Orleans.
Phillips to Tennessee/Miami.

 

[Brady6]

He fits into the Ravens scheme perfectly. His best year was as a Jack in a 3-4. This further supports my belief that Courtney Upshaw is moving to ILB.

You might be right on. Upshaw would be an Thomas type ILB. Good call.

 

[patfanken]

Um. Before anyone gets carried away with laughing at the Ravens, for this deal...maybe you should do some research...they protected themselves with this deal, and he only counts as a 2.5 mill. Cap hit this year.

It's being termed as a "steal of a deal" for them.

If we pay an aged abraham, or freeney close to that it's an epic fail (2.5 cap hit this year).

Base value of 5 years, for 26 million is a steal....that's what they got him for.

Are you serious, sonny? You might want to take notes on this. They are paying him $8.5MM THIS year. That sweet cap number this year, but within a couple of years it will exceed $8MM and what then? There is a price to be paid for back loading a contract to that extent, ,and packaging it with a nice cap number this year, not only puts off the inevitable, it makes it worse when it hits

 

[Rob0729]

Mario Williams, was hurt last year.

His contract,and Dumervil's isn't comparable.

Baltimore won out in this one.

It's all about value. Imo, a 29 year old dumervil at a guaranteed 5 mill. A year, is a great signing.

Williams used his hand as an excuse, but he was just one example. Want others?

• Asomougha went from the best CB in the NFL to a scrub in one year in free agency
• While we are on the Eagles, Asante Samuel was never nearly as good as he was here after he left.
• Haynesworth went from a Defensive MVP candidate his last year in Tennessee to a scrub in Washington.
• Adalius Thomas was great in Baltimore and was decent his first year with the Pats and sucked his last two.
• Duane Starks was a stud in Baltimore getting 20 INTs in his first four years in the league. He signs in free agency with Arizona and has 5 INTs total for the rest of his career (although he got injury prone after his first year in Arizona, but his first year in Arizona sucked).
• Dunta Robinson was one of the top CBs in the league when he was on the Texans. He has sucked since.
• Karlos Dansby was a great player in Arizona. The Dolphins sign him and be became average.
• Hugh Douglas was a stud in Philadelpia. The Jets signed him and he became an above average DE at best and was mediocre his first year with them at best.

I could go on.

Free agency is a crap shoot. No matter who the player is. Dumervil could be even better in the Ravens' scheme than he was in Denver or he could be a bust or anywhere in between. That is how free agency works.

I guarantee you there will be free agents from this year's class that everyone was gushing about the last week who people will be trashing at the end of the season for being a waste of a roster move. And there will be free agents who people say were bad pick ups who will turn into great players. Happens to a certain extent every year.

 

[Sciz]

He fits into the Ravens scheme perfectly. His best year was as a Jack in a 3-4. This further supports my belief that Courtney Upshaw is moving to ILB.

If they're moving Upshaw to ILB, then that makes Dumervil a full time OLB. That'd be a mistake, in my opinion. Their best option would be to use Upshaw on early downs and Dumervil in pass rush situations, where each of them excel. I would love to see Upshaw try to cover Gronk or Hernandez, though.

 

[NgataTroublemaker]

I think the Ravens got a bargain. I haven't seen the specifics of the deal, but reportedly it is 5 years for $26 million, not including incentives.

The signing bonus is small enough that any dead money hit after a few years isn't catastrophic if he is released (especially with a June 1st designation).

If all incentives are earned it would be $35 million (and means he is playing very well). That is $5.5 million less than Kruger's deal, and I believe Dumervil is massively more proven and better than Kruger. Plus, Dumervil was cut, not signed as a unrestricted free agent, so that acquisition does not count against compensatory pick calculations, whereas losing Kruger will net us a 4th round pick. Basically we traded Kruger for Dumervil and a 4th round pick and paid less money doing it.

Dumervil led the league in sacks the last time he played in a 3-4 (under DC Mike Nolan, our former DC), with his LB coach being Martindale, who is now our LB coach. I think all signs point to him having a good year.

As for the cap, I am not that worried about that for 2014 or even 2015. We have a much larger than normal dead money total this year due to retirements and a bad deal given to Cundiff (sudden bout of nausea typing that name). Ray Lewis' 2013 dead money = $2.95M, Birk = $1.4M, Cundiff = $1.8M, Boldin = $1.5M...there are others, but these are above and beyond a normal Ravens dead money year.

Flacco's deal won't be that big of a hindrance until 2016. No clue what happens then, but 2014 and 2015 his cap hits are around $14.8M and $14.5M respectively. Webb's cap number goes up as well. It will be tight but there are plenty of options. Cutting Jameel McClain would save millions. Jacoby Jones and Vonta Leach both will not be re-signed, that is $4.9M and $4.3M cap space in 2013, respectively, disappearing with no dead money for 2014. Restructuring/extending Ngata or Suggs is possible. Suggs may even be a 'pay cut or release' situation especially now that we signed Dumervil.

And the new TV deal will boost the cap by decent amount in 2015. The cap isn't that dire, though a little bit of short term mortgaging may have to be done to sign Torrey Smith and Pitta (though Pitta won't be that expensive, and really Torrey might not either). But these deals can be structured creatively so they aren't overly expensive until Ngata and Suggs are counting for much lower towards the cap than they are right now (if they are counting at all).

 

[Deus Irae]

Getting a player for a super low first year cap hit isn't the sign of a good team, it's the sign of a desperate one. What do they do next year when Flacco's cap hit doubles and Dumervil's cap hit probably doubles?

The contract's base numbers are currently being reported as 5/26, with a one million dollar base salary this year and a $7.5 million signing bonus. He's not breaking the Ravens with numbers like that.

 

[supafly]

That is $5.5 million less than Kruger's deal, and I believe Dumervil is massively more proven and better than Kruger. Plus, Dumervil was cut, not signed as a unrestricted free agent, so that acquisition does not count against compensatory pick calculations, whereas losing Kruger will net us a 4th round pick. Basically we traded Kruger for Dumervil and a 4th round pick and paid less money doing it.

Don't bother. At the same time don't take offense either. The popular thought has to be that (in this specific order):

1. Baltimore is in cap hell (February)

2. Baltimore has screwed themselves and all of their players left them, certainly not the other way around (March)

3. Even IF Baltimore ends up staying competitive by making some viable replacements, they'll surely suffer in the years to come (April)

I honestly believe that Newsome chose to do things a bit differently this time around after winning the SB, due to having some issues last time with overpaying to keep everyone intact. Only time will tell if they can stay competitive or they'll be the next Cleveland Browns with decades of losing seasons.

 

[supafly]

If they're moving Upshaw to ILB, then that makes Dumervil a full time OLB. That'd be a mistake, in my opinion. Their best option would be to use Upshaw on early downs and Dumervil in pass rush situations, where each of them excel. I would love to see Upshaw try to cover Gronk or Hernandez, though.

Understanding that different posters refer to different names etc, what if they used Dumervil as the full time "rush" LB that Kruger held last year, and used Suggs as the Will/weakside LB where he'd still get opportunities? Isn't that what they did when Suggs came back from injury?