Dude, please please please stay healthy...Ras I at camp story

[AzPatsFan]

Teams were able to run on them last season as well, especially down the stretch and in the playoffs (AFCCG painfully reminds us of that). The run defense started out hot last season but faded a lot down the stretch and that was with all those "big bodies" you referred to.

The LB corps as it stands is very good against as the run, so in some ways they're giving up beef upfront for more speed and athleticism to get after the QB more effectively. In today's NFL it is better to be good against the pass and average against the run than the other way around. Everything the Patriots have done this offseason confirms that they agree with that too.

I usually agree with you but this time, disagree. If you can't stop the run, It doesn't matter how good your pass defense is. Stopping the run is THE fundamental first step, in building a good Defense.

Why do you think that Kyle Love and Brandon Deaderick are now Jaguars??

Two different 300+ DTs were added to the squad, who by reputation, can both defend the run; and penetrate, and play the pass. Plus the LB corps is BIG, now experienced, and much deeper than heretofore. There is a lot of talent there too. Two #1s and two #2s, as well as a proven UDFA find in Fletcher, plus BB added two coverage OLBs, former Probowler in A Wilson, and two-way rookie athlete, Jamie Collins.

I was concerned when BB seemingly on an impulse, tore up his Defensive line when I thought it was important to just rebuild the WR corps. But he swiftly patched with a former Probowler, added a highly valued, young Canadian import, and didn't even bother to talk to Seymour, or several other good DTs on the FA market,who are still available.

 

[Get it shawtaay]

I usually agree with you but this time, disagree. If you can't stop the run, It doesn't matter how good your pass defense is. Stopping the run is THE fundamental first step, in building a good Defense.

Why do you think that Kyle Love and Brandon Deaderick are now Jaguars?? Two different 300+ DTs were added to the squad, who can both defend the run; and penetrate, and play the pass.

I always agreed with you on stopping the run, but year after year of watching teams like the Giants, Ravens, Saints, Colts, Packers with substantially better passing defenses than running defenses (and mediocre to bad run defenses) is making me waver in that belief.

Look at it this way - why did SF, who had been pounding the ball down Baltimore's throat and with Ngata in the locker room, throw the ball into the endzone 3 straight times at the end of the game? When good teams need a big play they tend to go to the pass. Same with us - in the playoffs, 3rd and 2 has been a passing down of late. The teams that win the SB don't have to be good run defenses because when the stakes get high, offenses are more likely to try and pass the ball. That's my theory at least.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I always agreed with you on stopping the run, but year after year of watching teams like the Giants, Ravens, Saints, Colts, Packers with substantially better passing defenses than running defenses (and mediocre to bad run defenses) is making me waver in that belief.

Look at it this way - why did SF, who had been pounding the ball down Baltimore's throat and with Ngata in the locker room, throw the ball into the endzone 3 straight times at the end of the game? When good teams need a big play they tend to go to the pass. Same with us - in the playoffs, 3rd and 2 has been a passing down of late. The teams that win the SB don't have to be good run defenses because when the stakes get high, offenses are more likely to try and pass the ball. That's my theory at least.

Uh, how'd that conversion to all passing work out for SF there?

 

[Get it shawtaay]

Uh, how'd that conversion to all passing work out for SF there?

Well, that's precisely my point. The irrational tendency of teams to pass in big moments and in big games favors teams that are equipped to stop the pass.

The importance of stopping the run is predicated on the notion that if running the ball is a favorable proposition, the opposing team will run the ball every time. But imo that notion breaks down in the postseason due to a combination of factors (idiocy, nerves, overconfidence in play installations, good teams tending to be pass dominant).

 

[Ozymandias]

I usually agree with you but this time, disagree. If you can't stop the run, It doesn't matter how good your pass defense is. Stopping the run is THE fundamental first step, in building a good Defense.

Why do you think that Kyle Love and Brandon Deaderick are now Jaguars??

Two different 300+ DTs were added to the squad, who by reputation, can both defend the run; and penetrate, and play the pass. Plus the LB corps is BIG, now experienced, and much deeper than heretofore. There is a lot of talent there too. Two #1s and two #2s, as well as a proven UDFA find in Fletcher, plus BB added two coverage OLBs, former Probowler in A Wilson, and two-way rookie athlete, Jamie Collins.

I was concerned when BB seemingly on an impulse, tore up his Defensive line when I thought it was important to just rebuild the WR corps. But he swiftly patched with a former Probowler, added a highly valued, young Canadian import, and didn't even bother to talk to Seymour, or several other good DTs on the FA market,who are still available.

You make good points, but the NFL is different now. 10-15 years ago stopping the run was the defense's first objective prior to anything else. With today's passing rules it's far more important to be better against the pass than run especially with a strong pass rush. In most cases, objective number #1 for a defense is getting to the opposition's QB and defending the pass.

That's not to say stopping the run isn't important anymore, it still is. It's just not as important as stopping the pass/rushing the QB in today's NFL.

 

[tonyto3690]

I always agreed with you on stopping the run, but year after year of watching teams like the Giants, Ravens, Saints, Colts, Packers with substantially better passing defenses than running defenses (and mediocre to bad run defenses) is making me waver in that belief.

Look at it this way - why did SF, who had been pounding the ball down Baltimore's throat and with Ngata in the locker room, throw the ball into the endzone 3 straight times at the end of the game? When good teams need a big play they tend to go to the pass. Same with us - in the playoffs, 3rd and 2 has been a passing down of late. The teams that win the SB don't have to be good run defenses because when the stakes get high, offenses are more likely to try and pass the ball. That's my theory at least.

They threw it three times because the Ravens were selling out to stop the run and they had been struggling to run the ball consistently. On top of that, like previously stated, those three throws were incomplete and they lost the game instead of sticking to their guns and playing to their strengths and running it.

 

[shmessy]

I really hope he can stay healthy, would be great to see Dowling lock-down the other CB spot. The secondary would be very good and have depth with Dowling playing on the outside.

Something that no Patriots fan has dared to say since 2004.

Interestingly enough - - 2004 is the year that, in the playoffs, the Pats beat the Colts (then record Manning 49 TDs), the 15-1 Steelers in Pittsburgh and the Eagles in the Super Bowl:

**With both starting CBs out injured for the playoffs and using a rotation of Randall Gay-Hank Poteat-Earthwind Moreland-Troy Brown at CB.

To me, the 2004 Patriots were the greatest Pats team ever.

 

[AzPatsFan]

You make good points, but the NFL is different now. 10-15 years ago stopping the run was the defense's first objective prior to anything else. With today's passing rules it's far more important to be better against the pass than run especially with a strong pass rush. In most cases, objective number #1 for a defense is getting to the opposition's QB and defending the pass.

That's not to say stopping the run isn't important anymore, it still is. It's just not as important as stopping the pass/rushing the QB in today's NFL.

I now recognize that we really see eye to eye on this. BB's desire to improve the interior pass rush while tearing apart the Defensive line is an indication that he is confidant that his team will still be fairly proficient stopping the run, while improving against the pass.

For the past few years, BB has been acquiring secondary candidates and even when he thought he had a good enough starting quartet, injuries would wreck it.

But now I think for the first time, he has a competent sextet at CB; and a competent quartet at Safety, all willing to play team Defense. His Pats are now equipped to handle an injury or two. Something that could not be said the last four years.

Pass defense is a combination of coverage, and pressure. I can't recall when there was such an accumulation of athletes who can pressure from outside, and inside, on the DL; and on the Blitz. Nor can I recall a time when there were so many potential starting quality secondary talents.

On paper, Bill Belichick has now completed his Defensive rebuilding. He still needs to draft the eventual replacements for Wilfork and Kelly, but the need is no where immediate.

Of course the proof is in the doing. It will be a revelation to many how the Patriots' Defense sprang back to prominence, like a Phoenix from the ashes. But we all know if that occurs, it was hardly an accident. :snob:

 

[QB12]

Anyone else ready for the season to begin now??

 

[RayClay]

Interestingly enough - - 2004 is the year that, in the playoffs, the Pats beat the Colts (then record Manning 49 TDs), the 15-1 Steelers in Pittsburgh and the Eagles in the Super Bowl:

**With both starting CBs out injured for the playoffs and using a rotation of Randall Gay-Hank Poteat-Earthwind Moreland-Troy Brown at CB.

To me, the 2004 Patriots were the greatest Pats team ever.

and Asante

 

[PittPatriot]

For those that forgot, and nobody would blame you, here's a reminder of who Ras I Dowling is and what he brings to the table. Please stay healthy:

Ras-I Dowling - YouTube

At the 00:17 mark he mentions "testing his manhood."
As a fertility doc, I test manhoods all the time.
Here is how that consultation would start:
"Well, Mr. and Mrs. Dowling, I am sorry to say that you are azoospermic."

Call me cynical, but I refuse to get excited over Ras-I. I am still waiting for pennies back on the dollars we invested on a top of the 2nd round pick…who was rumored to be first-round talent.