Dropped balls.....

[PatsFan37]

No arguing that his hands are not the best. Even in minicamp he was "double-clutching" passes. Still, his catch % numbers, in context are not bad. For example, in 2004, David Patten's best year, when he filled a downfield role similar to what Stallworth has in past seasons, Patten had a catch percentage of 46%. Javon Walker was at 55% last season, Reggie Brown at 51%, Boldin at 55%, Burress 52%, Driver 53%, M. Muhammad 51%, Tory Holt 52%, Deion Branch 52%, S. Moss 54%. In 2005, Terry Glenn was at 53%, Lee Evans at 53%, Burress at 46%, Isaac Bruce at 51%, Randal-El at 50%. So while Stallworth's hands are not ideal, he has been a capable receiver, with a positive overall influence on his team's offense, for several years in a row. Factoring in maturity, commitment to physical fitness, and an improved QB, he has every opportunity to fulfill his raw potential with the Pats.

I must be missing something. Good QB's have completion percentages in the high fifties / low sixties. Yet these top WRs are all in the low fifties.

Is the reason that all the dump-offs to RBs and short passes to slot receivers are simply easier to catch because the passes are more accurate and require less body adjustment at slower speeds. Deep wideouts are running fast, fighting for the ball and adjusting in mid-air to make a catch.

I don't know, I'm guessing. Is that why a deep threat like Stallworth has a lot of drops? And why his numbers are ok compared to other deep threats.

 

[PonyExpress]

I must be missing something. Good QB's have completion percentages in the high fifties / low sixties. Yet these top WRs are all in the low fifties.

Is the reason that all the dump-offs to RBs and short passes to slot receivers are simply easier to catch because the passes are more accurate and require less body adjustment at slower speeds. Deep wideouts are running fast, fighting for the ball and adjusting in mid-air to make a catch.

I don't know, I'm guessing. Is that why a deep threat like Stallworth has a lot of drops? And why his numbers are ok compared to other deep threats.

Just think of Chad Pennignton with his yearly completion % of 65. The premise of the Bill Walsh offense was to convert the passing game into an adjuct of the running game. To do this he used short passes as the basis of his offense, with the goal of completing 2/3 passes. Until the Walsh offense, (derived from the Paul Brown offense, in which Kenny Anderson would later complete 70% of his passes), the downfield gunslinger was the ideal QB, with lower comp % like Steve Grogan. Nowadays, the offenses are hybrids that combine the Walsh approach with more traditional downfield throwing. Qbs pad their completion stats with passes to rbs, TEs, and possession Wrs. Downfield throwing will always be a high risk high reward enterprise, and involve lower comp %. Wrs whose role is to present a downfield threat traditionally have lower catch %. Many current Wrs don't consistently stay in one role, like Stanley Morgan used to. But almost all the big play receivers have catch % below the overall comp % of their Qb. For example, Chad Johnson had a catch % of 57, Palmer a comp% of 63. A possession receiver logically tends in the opposite direction. Houshmanzadeh had 68% to Palmer's 65%. That is one reason to be concerned about the future of Troy Brown. Used in an exclusively short yardage, possession role in 2006, Brown managed to catch only 58% of the passes thrown to him, whereas Brady completed 62% overall.

 

[dryheat44]

im pretty sure the only dropped passes i heard of were KELLY WASHINGTON. maybe u got it mixed up, maybe i missed something. who knows.

If it's not one Volunteer, it's the other.

Both of them are below average in that department.

 

[spacecrime]

In in 2005, people were ripping Givens for his drops.

That was 2002, wasn't it? His first year? I was upset they cut Fred COleman to keep Givens and he dropped everything his first year. Then he hit the jugs machine his first offseason and he's been pretty good since. I wish we'd kept him. If the Branch thing broke earlier, if Branch had given a clue, hadn't said he intended to play out his contract, then I think we might have tried harder for Givens.

 

[Remix 6]

If it's not one Volunteer, it's the other.

Both of them are below average in that department.

neither have below average hands..else we wouldnt sign both

in TC, Washington displayed below average hands while i heard nothing about Stallworth but hes average-above average

 

[dryheat44]

neither have below average hands..else we wouldnt sign both

in TC, Washington displayed below average hands while i heard nothing about Stallworth but hes average-above average

Compared to whom? This board? Sure. NFL Wide Receivers, not so much. Stallworth has a rep around the league for not looking in his passes. Other than Chris Chambers, I don't think anybody has dropped more in the NFL over the last few seasons. I will look this up when I have a chance.

 

[Remix 6]

Compared to whom? This board? Sure. NFL Wide Receivers, not so much. Stallworth has a rep around the league for not looking in his passes. Other than Chris Chambers, I don't think anybody has dropped more in the NFL over the last few seasons. I will look this up when I have a chance.

last season:
Owens
D. Jackson
A. Johnson
Williamson
Smith
R. Brown
Bush
Chambers
Driver
Edwards

didnt make top 18

not even top 16 for NFC..still behind Reggie Brown and Brian Westbrook

 

[PATRIOT64]

For a minute there,I thought the title of this thread was that a Patriots player had a hernia - PHEW AM I RELEIVED!!!

 

[unoriginal]

I wonder how the people complaining about the "dropped balls" stat feel about the "Errors" stat in baseball.

 

[Aqua4Ever04]

dropped passes can be: from diving and missing...from getting a hand on an overthrow and all that jazz

caldwell was WIDE OPEN. it was an easy pass and catch

regardless of what they call dropped passes..i've seen chad johnson on that list of most dropped passes and they arent just gimmes

I agree completely. The drop stat is very inaccurate and better judgement should be used. Watching Dolphins games, I know this very well because our QBs are constantly eratic and Chambers will lay out, get a finger on the ball, and be charged with a drop. It also skews the catch %.

 

[zarakotas5]

I wonder how the people complaining about the "dropped balls" stat feel about the "Errors" stat in baseball.

Great point, and if I'm reading it right, it's a loss of down unless it's in the end-zone.

I lived in New Orleans when Donte played there and I've followed his NFL career. He does not have glue for hands, but please do not underestimate the Aaron Brooks factor. He was also a young stud at the time and his commitment was suspect. Things have changed since then.

Hell, who led the league in drops last year? Terrell Owens. Say what you will about him, but he is an elite receiver. Donte will frustrate you at times if he gets injured, and he will probably have a few drops. But when you see him catch a 50 yarder, the likes of which have been rare in these parts, those drops will be nothing more than any other loss of down.

 

[Keegs]

Stallworth may have dropped some passes last year but they were not the 2 biggest passes in his life in the biggest game of his life.

Caldwell made a poopy in his pants TWICE (once bailed out by playoff hero Jabar Gaffney).

I used to want Reche cut.... well i still do i guess... but i think i'm ok with him being on this team as long as he's never starting.

I would rather take my chances with another mediocre wideout off the street that doesn't have "choking in the AFC Championship game" on his resume.

Yes i know he caught that ball in San Diego but 95% of the receivers in the league would have caught that ball and 91% of that 95% wouldn't have ran out of bounds.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't get how everyone singles out Caldwell for choking in that game. His dropped balls were even the worst examples of "choking" in that game. Maroney and Brady screwed up a hand off just outside they goalline. That was a far worse mistake than either of Caldwell's drops. They were lucky Mankins bailed them out by falling on the ball in the endzone. That play could have been far more disasterous.

Also, Brady's interception at the end of the game was a huge choke move. He stared down Troy Brown the entire time which allowed Marlon Jackson to make a play on the ball. That play was textbook what you are not supposed to do.

Brady's screw up cost us the game. We could have overcame Caldwell's drops, but we couldn't overcome Brady's final interception. Yet, none of the Caldwell bashers ever acknowledge that Brady making a really bad interception ended the game for us, not Caldwell's dropped ball.

Troy Brown stupidily impeded a defender to make a play on the ball which resulted in a PI and turned a first down play into a three and out drive. On that same drive, Heath Evans caused us to have 12 men in the huddle.

There were plenty of players that "choked" in that game and some worse than Caldwell, but for some reason it is Caldwell who is singled out. One of his dropped balls didn't even hurt us since we scored on the very next play.

Caldwell bashers point to that game as their primary reason to cut Caldwell. If that is the sole reason to cut Caldwell, shouldn't we cut Maroney too? He had 8 carries for 11 yards and a fumble that game. And he has been promoted to lead RB this season. No one choked worse in the AFC Championship game than Maroney in my opinion. But then again, I ain't calling for either player to be cut. I don't judge players on one game.

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree completely. The drop stat is very inaccurate and better judgement should be used. Watching Dolphins games, I know this very well because our QBs are constantly eratic and Chambers will lay out, get a finger on the ball, and be charged with a drop. It also skews the catch %.

Listen, Welcher. Just keep your mouth shut already. You're clueless and it was already explained that the dropped pass does NOT get counted for the idiocy you described. So, go away already. Or read the damn thread so you at least know wtf you should be talking about.

 

[DaBruinz]

Great point, and if I'm reading it right, it's a loss of down unless it's in the end-zone.

I lived in New Orleans when Donte played there and I've followed his NFL career. He does not have glue for hands, but please do not underestimate the Aaron Brooks factor. He was also a young stud at the time and his commitment was suspect. Things have changed since then.

Hell, who led the league in drops last year? Terrell Owens. Say what you will about him, but he is an elite receiver. Donte will frustrate you at times if he gets injured, and he will probably have a few drops. But when you see him catch a 50 yarder, the likes of which have been rare in these parts, those drops will be nothing more than any other loss of down.

Living in Dallas, I got to watch 1st hand how Owens CHOKED and dropped many of those passes. Also, notice, I intentially left Owens out of the picture.

 

[Lurks_All_Day]

There were plenty of players that "choked" in that game and some worse than Caldwell, but for some reason it is Caldwell who is singled out. One of his dropped balls didn't even hurt us since we scored on the very next play.

I believe that if we see it and hear it enough, it sticks with us. My subjective memory recalls fifteen or twenty instant replays of the drops from every angle but from the helmet cam. And oh, the close in shot of him, burned into my memory: the look on his face, knowing he effed up. Not to mention the incessant post-game blather about how 'costly' his play was.

Caldwell bashers point to that game as their primary reason to cut Caldwell. If that is the sole reason to cut Caldwell, shouldn't we cut Maroney too? He had 8 carries for 11 yards and a fumble that game. And he has been promoted to lead RB this season. No one choked worse in the AFC Championship game than Maroney in my opinion. But then again, I ain't calling for either player to be cut. I don't judge players on one game.

This is a team sport, and few are exempt (Gostkowski.)

 

[zarakotas5]

Living in Dallas, I got to watch 1st hand how Owens CHOKED and dropped many of those passes. Also, notice, I intentially left Owens out of the picture.

I'm not an Owens fan, and from what I gather, this past year was prolly his worst. His drops this year were egregious, for sure. But, this argument is based on numbers, and TO DID did fulfill that argument. Despite his transgressions, his numbers would dictate a success, at least in the realm of Pats receivers. (Led league in TDs?)

The receiver really has one of the simplest jobs of all fb players. To not simply catch the ball is, theorhetically, inexcusable. The business is in being crafty and invisible. To do so and drop the f-in ball? Ugh. It's really an aftethought position, originally designed to be a diversion. Yet, they seem to be the prima donnas.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I agree Caldwell gets a bum rap on the dropped passes - and had he not caught all that he did in the regular season we'd have no opportunity to talk about his choking in the playoffs...

But all the stats shown above fail to show that a player could catch 100% of the passes in lower pressure regular season games and have a VERY tough time dealing with the pressure of catching a pivotal pass in the playoffs.

Is Caldwell one of those players? I'm not sure - but the stats from the regular season would have nothing to do with that.

 

[mgteich]

I don't know why anyone would compare Caldwell with Stallworth and Owens. Talent counts, and Stallworth and Owens have much more. They are elite receivers.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't know why anyone would compare Caldwell with Stallworth and Owens. Talent counts, and Stallworth and Owens have much more. They are elite receivers.

I don't think I would classify Stallworth as an elite WR. The guy has never had a 1,000 yard season which even in a very standards for an elite WR would be a requirement. Stallworth is a good WR, but that is as far as I would go in describing him.