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Dropped balls.....

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DaBruinz, Jun 29, 2007.

  1. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 Rookie

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    I must be missing something. Good QB's have completion percentages in the high fifties / low sixties. Yet these top WRs are all in the low fifties.

    Is the reason that all the dump-offs to RBs and short passes to slot receivers are simply easier to catch because the passes are more accurate and require less body adjustment at slower speeds. Deep wideouts are running fast, fighting for the ball and adjusting in mid-air to make a catch.

    I don't know, I'm guessing. Is that why a deep threat like Stallworth has a lot of drops? And why his numbers are ok compared to other deep threats.
  2. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Just think of Chad Pennignton with his yearly completion % of 65. The premise of the Bill Walsh offense was to convert the passing game into an adjuct of the running game. To do this he used short passes as the basis of his offense, with the goal of completing 2/3 passes. Until the Walsh offense, (derived from the Paul Brown offense, in which Kenny Anderson would later complete 70% of his passes), the downfield gunslinger was the ideal QB, with lower comp % like Steve Grogan. Nowadays, the offenses are hybrids that combine the Walsh approach with more traditional downfield throwing. Qbs pad their completion stats with passes to rbs, TEs, and possession Wrs. Downfield throwing will always be a high risk high reward enterprise, and involve lower comp %. Wrs whose role is to present a downfield threat traditionally have lower catch %. Many current Wrs don't consistently stay in one role, like Stanley Morgan used to. But almost all the big play receivers have catch % below the overall comp % of their Qb. For example, Chad Johnson had a catch % of 57, Palmer a comp% of 63. A possession receiver logically tends in the opposite direction. Houshmanzadeh had 68% to Palmer's 65%. That is one reason to be concerned about the future of Troy Brown. Used in an exclusively short yardage, possession role in 2006, Brown managed to catch only 58% of the passes thrown to him, whereas Brady completed 62% overall.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2007
  3. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    If it's not one Volunteer, it's the other.

    Both of them are below average in that department.
  4. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    That was 2002, wasn't it? His first year? I was upset they cut Fred COleman to keep Givens and he dropped everything his first year. Then he hit the jugs machine his first offseason and he's been pretty good since. I wish we'd kept him. If the Branch thing broke earlier, if Branch had given a clue, hadn't said he intended to play out his contract, then I think we might have tried harder for Givens.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2007
  5. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    neither have below average hands..else we wouldnt sign both

    in TC, Washington displayed below average hands while i heard nothing about Stallworth but hes average-above average
  6. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    Compared to whom? This board? Sure. NFL Wide Receivers, not so much. Stallworth has a rep around the league for not looking in his passes. Other than Chris Chambers, I don't think anybody has dropped more in the NFL over the last few seasons. I will look this up when I have a chance.
  7. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

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    last season:
    Owens
    D. Jackson
    A. Johnson
    Williamson
    Smith
    R. Brown
    Bush
    Chambers
    Driver
    Edwards

    didnt make top 18

    not even top 16 for NFC..still behind Reggie Brown and Brian Westbrook
  8. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

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    For a minute there,I thought the title of this thread was that a Patriots player had a hernia - PHEW AM I RELEIVED!!!
  9. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    I wonder how the people complaining about the "dropped balls" stat feel about the "Errors" stat in baseball.
  10. Aqua4Ever04

    Aqua4Ever04 Banned

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    I agree completely. The drop stat is very inaccurate and better judgement should be used. Watching Dolphins games, I know this very well because our QBs are constantly eratic and Chambers will lay out, get a finger on the ball, and be charged with a drop. It also skews the catch %.
  11. zarakotas5

    zarakotas5 Rookie

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    Great point, and if I'm reading it right, it's a loss of down unless it's in the end-zone.

    I lived in New Orleans when Donte played there and I've followed his NFL career. He does not have glue for hands, but please do not underestimate the Aaron Brooks factor. He was also a young stud at the time and his commitment was suspect. Things have changed since then.

    Hell, who led the league in drops last year? Terrell Owens. Say what you will about him, but he is an elite receiver. Donte will frustrate you at times if he gets injured, and he will probably have a few drops. But when you see him catch a 50 yarder, the likes of which have been rare in these parts, those drops will be nothing more than any other loss of down.
  12. Keegs

    Keegs Rookie

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    Stallworth may have dropped some passes last year but they were not the 2 biggest passes in his life in the biggest game of his life.

    Caldwell made a poopy in his pants TWICE (once bailed out by playoff hero Jabar Gaffney).

    I used to want Reche cut.... well i still do i guess... but i think i'm ok with him being on this team as long as he's never starting.

    I would rather take my chances with another mediocre wideout off the street that doesn't have "choking in the AFC Championship game" on his resume.

    Yes i know he caught that ball in San Diego but 95% of the receivers in the league would have caught that ball and 91% of that 95% wouldn't have ran out of bounds.
  13. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't get how everyone singles out Caldwell for choking in that game. His dropped balls were even the worst examples of "choking" in that game. Maroney and Brady screwed up a hand off just outside they goalline. That was a far worse mistake than either of Caldwell's drops. They were lucky Mankins bailed them out by falling on the ball in the endzone. That play could have been far more disasterous.

    Also, Brady's interception at the end of the game was a huge choke move. He stared down Troy Brown the entire time which allowed Marlon Jackson to make a play on the ball. That play was textbook what you are not supposed to do.

    Brady's screw up cost us the game. We could have overcame Caldwell's drops, but we couldn't overcome Brady's final interception. Yet, none of the Caldwell bashers ever acknowledge that Brady making a really bad interception ended the game for us, not Caldwell's dropped ball.

    Troy Brown stupidily impeded a defender to make a play on the ball which resulted in a PI and turned a first down play into a three and out drive. On that same drive, Heath Evans caused us to have 12 men in the huddle.

    There were plenty of players that "choked" in that game and some worse than Caldwell, but for some reason it is Caldwell who is singled out. One of his dropped balls didn't even hurt us since we scored on the very next play.

    Caldwell bashers point to that game as their primary reason to cut Caldwell. If that is the sole reason to cut Caldwell, shouldn't we cut Maroney too? He had 8 carries for 11 yards and a fumble that game. And he has been promoted to lead RB this season. No one choked worse in the AFC Championship game than Maroney in my opinion. But then again, I ain't calling for either player to be cut. I don't judge players on one game.
  14. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Listen, Welcher. Just keep your mouth shut already. You're clueless and it was already explained that the dropped pass does NOT get counted for the idiocy you described. So, go away already. Or read the damn thread so you at least know wtf you should be talking about.
  15. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Living in Dallas, I got to watch 1st hand how Owens CHOKED and dropped many of those passes. Also, notice, I intentially left Owens out of the picture.
  16. Lurks_All_Day

    Lurks_All_Day Rookie

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    I believe that if we see it and hear it enough, it sticks with us. My subjective memory recalls fifteen or twenty instant replays of the drops from every angle but from the helmet cam. And oh, the close in shot of him, burned into my memory: the look on his face, knowing he effed up. Not to mention the incessant post-game blather about how 'costly' his play was.

    This is a team sport, and few are exempt (Gostkowski.) :)
  17. zarakotas5

    zarakotas5 Rookie

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    I'm not an Owens fan, and from what I gather, this past year was prolly his worst. His drops this year were egregious, for sure. But, this argument is based on numbers, and TO DID did fulfill that argument. Despite his transgressions, his numbers would dictate a success, at least in the realm of Pats receivers. (Led league in TDs?)

    The receiver really has one of the simplest jobs of all fb players. To not simply catch the ball is, theorhetically, inexcusable. The business is in being crafty and invisible. To do so and drop the f-in ball? Ugh. It's really an aftethought position, originally designed to be a diversion. Yet, they seem to be the prima donnas.
  18. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I agree Caldwell gets a bum rap on the dropped passes - and had he not caught all that he did in the regular season we'd have no opportunity to talk about his choking in the playoffs...

    But all the stats shown above fail to show that a player could catch 100% of the passes in lower pressure regular season games and have a VERY tough time dealing with the pressure of catching a pivotal pass in the playoffs.

    Is Caldwell one of those players? I'm not sure - but the stats from the regular season would have nothing to do with that.
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know why anyone would compare Caldwell with Stallworth and Owens. Talent counts, and Stallworth and Owens have much more. They are elite receivers.
  20. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think I would classify Stallworth as an elite WR. The guy has never had a 1,000 yard season which even in a very standards for an elite WR would be a requirement. Stallworth is a good WR, but that is as far as I would go in describing him.

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