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Drafting A Starting OT Who Could Start at RG

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mgteich, Mar 2, 2011.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who among the OT's is ready to start (if Light isn't re-signed), and is also ready to start ot OG if Light comes back?
    ====================
    Draftek now has Pinkston at #33, after having Costonzo at #17.
  2. Off The Grid

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    Ah!! VERY intriguing subject, sir. :cool:

    I actually have Jason Pinkston on deck as my second Guard ~ in addition to Danny Watkins ~ should signing + trading Logan Mankins prove to be the best course to take. I believe that Pinkston and Watkins both have All Pro Potential at Guard. But they're both decisively too short to play O Tackle at an high level.

    Ultimately, we're talking about two slightly different body types: O Tackles in our System need to be tall without being too heavy, and O Guards need to be stouter, and too much height can actually be a detriment, as has recently dawned on me. So while a conversion ~ such as Pinkston or Watkins or both ~ is right down my alley, an hybrid doesn't appeal to me, personally.

    I'd rather draft Mike Brewster and Peter Konz, next year ~ they're both exceptional Center prospects ~ and move one of them to O Guard, thus buying us an absolutely stellar Insurance Policy at Center.
  3. Box_O_Rocks

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    The OL I list are those whose Combine measurables most closely match up wth the kind of numbers NE's OL generated in their Combines or Pro-Days:

    Castonzo, Sherrod, Ziemba, and Reid, seem okay to step in and start early. I'm not sure about J. King and Hix. Solder is probably the best LT candidate, but he'd need to be eased into the job as he improves his technique and strength.

    Tackle to Guard: Maybe Sherrod and King as NE prefers Guards in the 6-3/6-4 range, these two are 6-5, but they may be okay inside. Tackles projected to Guard before the draft: Person, Boling, Arkin, and Kilgore.

    Guard who may also kick out to Tackle: Hurd.

    Center/Guards only: Moffitt, Jackson, Vendervelde, Fusco, Wisniewski, O'Dowd, Z. Williams.

    And Undersized Center/Guard who would probably need to spend time on the Practice Squad to bulk up: Kelce.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  4. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    Good thread. Given the uncertainty of Light & Mankins, I think BB will put an even greater imperative on drafting O-linemen with positional flexibility.

    My O-line Binkies who could start at OT or OG:

    G. Carimi
    B. Ijalana
    C. Boling

    Without knowing the outcome of the Light contract situation, I'm hesitant to draft pure OTs like T. Smith, Costanzo, Solder, Sherrod.
  5. Mark Morse

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    My Tackle to Guard conversions are Danny Watkins and Marcus Cannon. I think eitehr could start right away. I am projecting the Pats take at least three OLinemen in the draft. Brandon Fusco (who was interviewed by the Patriots at the combine) is another player that could move from C to OG.
  6. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    why wast time with conversions? the pats have the picks to get the guys at their positions.

    using 2 of the top 3 picks, the pats should go get an OG like pouncey (who could eventually be our C if the need should arise) and get a real OT. converting guys takes time, and I haven't seen the pats actually do a whole lot of that. most of the guys they have had play at the positions they have been accustomed to. (Light, Mankins, Koppen,Vollmer)

    just because the pats most recent successful project (neal) is retiring, does not mean they need to go make another one.

    The pats can get 2 guys between the first and 2nd rounds who will come relatively cheaply (rookie contracts) that will make it easier and more justifiable to extend mankins and to keep light around for a couple of years
  7. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, we have the picks to draft a pure OT, OG and a pure OC. That strategy could work (although we might really end up needing 2 guards and a cetner).

    TACKLE
    If we KNEW that Light was going to be here for three years, we would not draft a pure RT or LT min the first 3 picks. We might draft a player who could be a backup at both RT and LT. However, even #33 is expensive for a player that you expect to be a backup for at least 2 years. Watkins, Pinkston and Cannon come to mind. I would also expect that Carimi could start at RG.

    GUARDS
    Many nfl guards were OT's in college. So, there are always some top OT's that folk project at OT or OG. This is especially true of the right side where some teams want roadgraders.
    The relatively poor quality of the OG's this is an illusion if you include OT's that could project as OG's.

    CENTERS
    It is always good for a potential starter at center also be a gaurd. Weisnewski and Moffit seem to fit the bill.

    BTW, Pouncey is not a starting center.


    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  8. IllegalContact

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    per NFL.com:

    Pouncey is arguably this class' top interior offensive line prospect. He has outstanding football IQ and the ability to become a pro-bowl starter at guard or center. Has great feet needed to mirror pass rushers and pull down the line. Uses his hands well when battling in pass protection. Shows his understanding of the game when recognizing blitzers and effectively combo blocking with teammates. Plays with passion and aggressiveness and has the work-ethic to continue to improve. Defensive tackles with more size and strength than Pouncey can be his kryptonite but there aren't many holes in this guy's game. A first round prospect.

    and so I ask again, which pats OL's were converted from other positions?
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  9. DNR

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    The Patriots preference for taking very good OT and making them OG has been well documented in the past. It's exactly what they did with Mankins who was a LT at Fresno but was questionable at that position in the NFL.

    I can see them doing this again this year with someone like Ijalana who would would seem to fit their size and versatility requirements. I could see them taking him at #33 to play anywhere other than center.

    And John Moffitt would be my choice as another must take OL in this draft to play OG or eventually C
  10. DaBruinz

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    Why would Light's contract status affect the drafting of Smith, Solder, Sherrod or Castonzo? Light has 2-3 years in him, at best. Having one of those guys ready to come in to replace Light or Vollmer due to injury or to replace Light in the event of a serious downturn in skills would be better than not having them, wouldn't it?
  11. DaBruinz

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    Mankins was a starting LT in college and was moved inside to LG by the Pats.

    The issue with Pouncey is his shot-gun snapping, which I have heard is mediocre at best. If that isn't the case, then having him as a center could be a good thing. Personally, I'd rather put him at guard and have him prove he can handle center than have him at center and then have to move him to guard.
  12. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    My personal favorite is James Carpenter from Alabama. He's probably better suited to play OT, but short and stout enough to play OG. The only question is whether he's mobile enough to do all the pulling the Patriots' guards do. Based on what I've seen, I'd say yes.
  13. DaBruinz

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    Carpenter is one of the few OTs that I have not seen mentioned as being moved inside potentially.

    His 10 yard split was 1.81 (not the fastest,but not the slowest either)

    I don't know what his shuttle or 3 cone numbers were.

    His bench press was only 23 reps.

    That being said, he does look intriguing.
  14. patchick

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    I think this OT class is notable for being full of pure OTs. The classic inside/outside guy is somebody like Nick Kaczur. We know that the Pats chose to play him at tackle but experimented with moving him inside when Mankins was out. We also have Bruschi's comments about Kaczur struggling with the move inside because of his height and arm length.

    Kaczur is 6'4.5" 319 with 32 7/8" arms.

    The top 5 tackles in the draft -- Castonzo, Carimi, Sherrod, Smith, Solder -- are all taller than Kaczur, most of them much taller. They all have much longer arms, too. (Costanzo has the "shortest" at 34 1/2"!) And except for Carimi, they all have better quickness times than Kaczur to boot. Those are pure, classic OT bodies, and I have to think that a move to guard would be detrimental for them.

    So for swing players let's look beyond the big 5. Eliminating intriguing but raw prospects not ready to start at RG (Ben Ijalana, Derek Newton), I see four guys who could fit the description:

    Clint Boling
    James Carpenter
    Jason Pinkston
    Stephen Schilling
  15. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    If I'm going to use a first round draft pick on an offensive lineman, I would want this player to be a starter from day one or at a minimum be the full time starter in year two. If Light is coming back for 2-3 years, I'd rather use my high round picks for a DE, OLB or a player who can start at OG and move to OT should it be necessary.
  16. DaBruinz

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    The Pats could use the #33 pick on an OT who would learn the system and get spot playing time the way Vollmer did. And use him to push Light. I have no issue with them having Light on the bench if he was beat out by a rookie.
  17. IllegalContact

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    ok.......not really much of conversion since everyone had him pegged as an LG long before he got drafted, and he has started there ever since day 1.....

    there's nobody in this draft who compares to mankins physically except for pouncey.....
  18. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :confused: Mankins played tackle exclusively in college. How can he not count as a conversion? Just because he made it look easy?

    For a purely physical twin in this draft, try Mike Person of Montana State.
  19. DaBruinz

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    Actually, most people had him as a TACKLE with a possibility as going to guard. Most people didn't have him on the Pats radar. The few that did have him on their lists, had him at RT, not LG.

    Tackle is where the 49ers wanted him to play. And they would have taken him if the Pats didn't.
  20. DaBruinz

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    *chuckle* I was actually looking at Person today and saying to myself that he'd be a great fit at RG and would be relatively inexpensive. The only thing I wasn't sure of is his aggressiveness.

    Another player the Pats may look at is Stephen Schilling from Michigan..
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
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