Draft Strategy

[mayoclinic]

I agree with all your pre-draft strategy. I would not worry as much this year about paying a lit bit more than normal to keep guys like Watson and Faulk.

Personally, I would go after Cody unless Wilfork had signed an extension. One year with both is fine. Trading Wilfork for a 1st is fine if he won't extend. The future of our defense is in the balance. We need a nose tackle for the future and 3-4 nose tackles take at least haf a year to develop. The time is now. And signing Casey Hampton is a fine option.

If we franchise Wilfork and keep him (but haven't signed him to a long term extension), then Cody is definitely on my short list in the 1st round, along with a DE/OLB (Dunlap is the most interesting guy to me right now, but has obvious questionmarks) and Spiller. Any of those options would provide terrific value in the 20's. I love the idea of Warren-Cody-Wilfork at DL, but I'm not sure I like it more than getting a top pass rusher or an all-purpose weapon like Spiller. Tough call.

The Thomas situation is an interesting one. The OPEN question is the realtionship between Thomas and Belichick. Obviously if Belichick wants him gone, he's gone. If Thomas is worth $5M a year and a 3rd for someone else, he should be worth keeping. After all, if Thomas leaves, there will be a considerable hole in our defense. He played more than 50% of the reps this year in our top 10 defense. Obviously if we pick up Dansby or some other dream player, Thomas can be considered excess baggage. In any case, no decision NEEDS to be made about Thomas. He can be kept until the team is sure of his free agent replacement.

You're absolutely right, there's no NEED to rush into resolving the Thomas situation, and I certainly wouldn't rush into anything rashly. Thomas has skills and value one way or another, and I certainly wouldn't cut off our nose to spite our face.

I would very much like to see a true SILB to play next to Mayo. I think that this would help our defense tremendously, by getting better interior pressure and by freeing up Mayo to be more of a weakside playmaker, which better suits his skills. I'm also influenced by Jays52's strategic analysis of a few weeks ago, which suggested that our defensive pressure could be improved as much by upgrading our interior pressure as by outside pass rushers. At this point I see 3 ways to go:

1. Sign a FA. Dansby is the obvious choice. It will cost Arizona 120% of his current $9.6M franchise tag to franchise him (over $11.5M), and I've heard that there's a good chance the Cardinals just let him walk in free agency. I don't know how much it would cost to get him, but I think he would bring terrific veteran leadership as well as versatility. If we somehow get Dansby, then I see either Thomas or Burgess as expendable. An OLB lineup of TBC-Dansby-Mayo and either Thomas or Burgess would be reasonably nice, especially if we have a couple of high upside prospects to develop at DE/OLB.

2. Draft a SILB. The options here are trading up for Rolando McClain (expensive) or drafting a cheaper alternative (Spikes or Norwood - still not cheap). I would prefer Dansby at this point - McClain is a somewhat more talented version of Dansby, but Dansby is an experienced veteran. I'd rather use our draft picks in other areas if possible.

3. Use Thomas at SILB. He did reasonably well here in 2007. I know Jays52 disagrees, but I think AD could be reasonably valuable for us along with Mayo inside. This is sort of my fallback option at this point.

 

[Metaphors]

The jets have done extremely well in drafting, in free agency and in picking a new coach. A team with a #1 running game (and two top RB's), the #1 defense (mostly young) and a top OL is indeed a team that is in good shape for the next few years.

For the kickoff of the 2010 season...
Ellis 33
Douglas 33
Jenkins 31
Pouha 31
Thomas 31
Scott 30
Pace 29
Sheppard 29
Rhodes 28
Leonard 27
Smith 27
Harris 26
Revis 25
Lowery 24

Is having 6 guys (all on the front 7) on the wrong side of 30yo "mostly young"? Maybe...but it looks like a unit that will need significant rework in the next couple of years. Couple of fun facts to add in...
1) Almost all those older vets have multi-million dollar caps hits until at least 2012 (Ellis is up after 2010).
2) Harris' deal is up after next year and Revis can void his deal after next year as well.
3) Thomas Jones (one of the "two top RB's") has his cap hit go up by $5M next year, which is also the last year of his deal.
4) As for that "top OL", Faneca, Woody and Moore (all on the wrong side of 30) have huge cap hits through 2012. D'Brick's cap hit skyrockets in the next 2 years. Mangold (the guy they really need) has his deal expire after ... you guessed it ... 2010.

The Jets are locked into big money deals for the next 2-3 years at least, but need to come up with huge money for Harris, Revis, Jones and Mangold after next year.

So that "#1 defense" and "#1 running game" came at a steep price. Those top picks that they traded up to take? Well they have a pesky habit of wanted to get paid some serious jack when their deals expire.

The Jets' window is open through next year. If there is no salary cap, their strategy pays off and they use their new stadium revenue to keep it going. If there is a cap, all bets are off after 2010.

Given that their defense is #1 and their running game iss #1, they don't need more than average passing game to be a top contender in 2010 and beyond. Sanchez poised to be at least an average nfl QB. The receivers aren't great, but free agency will help.

Again, they better hope for no salary cap in the next CBA. Otherwise Sanchez will have to try to be average throwing 5 yard slant passes to Jerrico for the next 3 years.

Believe it or not, I actually like a good number of players on the Jets (Washington, Keller, Harris, Revis, Thomas). I just can't see how they are set for the long term. They went for broke last year and lost. They got lucky this year with their finishing schedule or else the results would have been the same. Next year is the end of this contending window before the bills come due. You have to factor that into any discussion of their strategy.

 

[mayoclinic]

Believe it or not, I actually like a good number of players on the Jets (Washington, Keller, Harris, Revis, Thomas). I just can't see how they are set for the long term. They went for broke last year and lost. They got lucky this year with their finishing schedule or else the results would have been the same. Next year is the end of this contending window before the bills come due. You have to factor that into any discussion of their strategy.

As long as there is a salary cap and FA, I don't believe it is possible for any team to be "set for the long term". All teams will constantly be juggling expiring contracts, aging players, the cost of FAs, and the intricacies of fitting under the cap. All you can do is try to build a strong nucleus that will keep you competitive, and then try to juggle the pieces around that nucleus. BB and the Pats FO have been the best jugglers in the business over the past decade.

I'm certainly not (and I very much doubt that MgT is) trying to imply that the Jets are all set to be a major contender for years to come. That's really hard to do. The Pats and the Colts are the only 2 teams to achieve this in the past decade. Even the Steelers have had their down years, and this year has certainly shown how easily you can go from SB champ to not making the playoffs.

All I would argue is that the Jets have managed to build a strong nucleus with an excellent attacking defense and a power running game, and that they've done well in the draft and FA targetting key players who have fit this approach. That alone is a lot, and they deserve credit for what they've done. Whether that will be enough to keep them a perennial contender will depend on how adept they are at juggling their roster and the cap, whether the cap persists, and how certain key players develop. As you say, the odds are not necessarily in favor of them being able to successfully do all that, but the fact that they are even in that position is a significant accomplishment.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

2. Draft a SILB. The options here are trading up for Rolando McClain (expensive) or drafting a cheaper alternative (Spikes or Norwood - still not cheap). I would prefer Dansby at this point - McClain is a somewhat more talented version of Dansby, but Dansby is an experienced veteran. I'd rather use our draft picks in other areas if possible.

3. Use Thomas at SILB. He did reasonably well here in 2007. I know Jays52 disagrees, but I think AD could be reasonably valuable for us along with Mayo inside. This is sort of my fallback option at this point.

After watching Norwood playing all three LB positions against UConn, I no longer see him as a strong SILB option - at least not in the next couple seasons until he's learned to use his hands properly and unlearned that horrible duck and shoulder technique he's been taught at South Carolina. I like him at 3-4 OLB/4-3 DE for now, like Tedy, he could grow into ILB.

 

[mayoclinic]

After watching Norwood playing all three LB positions against UConn, I no longer see him as a strong SILB option - at least not in the next couple seasons until he's learned to use his hands properly and unlearned that horrible duck and shoulder technique he's been taught at South Carolina. I like him at 3-4 OLB/4-3 DE for now, like Tedy, he could grow into ILB.

Good input. Thanks.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that no team is set long term in the age of free agency and the cap. I would say that the colts and the patriots certainly SEEM to have achieved this goal for the last decade and both look to continue the run.

However, for the first time in almost a decade, I believe that the patriots have real competition for the division. Yes, the jets have issues. So, do we. The jets have the #1 defense in the nfl, the #1 running game and a top OL. Their weakness is their rookie qb who just had the best performance of any rookie qb ever in their first playoff game. Even if they lose some of that, they will be top contender for the division.

As far as the jets being in huge cap problems unless the cap is eliminated, I think we can wait and see. Posters have said that about the colts for at least 10 years, and it has never been true and their cap situation certainly have not crippled their team. The jets organization isn't as good, but it is competent and improving. They are not likely to make critical mistakes regarding the cap; why should we expect that they would do so?

As long as there is a salary cap and FA, I don't believe it is possible for any team to be "set for the long term". All teams will constantly be juggling expiring contracts, aging players, the cost of FAs, and the intricacies of fitting under the cap. All you can do is try to build a strong nucleus that will keep you competitive, and then try to juggle the pieces around that nucleus. BB and the Pats FO have been the best jugglers in the business over the past decade.

I'm certainly not (and I very much doubt that MgT is) trying to imply that the Jets are all set to be a major contender for years to come. That's really hard to do. The Pats and the Colts are the only 2 teams to achieve this in the past decade. Even the Steelers have had their down years, and this year has certainly shown how easily you can go from SB champ to not making the playoffs.

All I would argue is that the Jets have managed to build a strong nucleus with an excellent attacking defense and a power running game, and that they've done well in the draft and FA targetting key players who have fit this approach. That alone is a lot, and they deserve credit for what they've done. Whether that will be enough to keep them a perennial contender will depend on how adept they are at juggling their roster and the cap, whether the cap persists, and how certain key players develop. As you say, the odds are not necessarily in favor of them being able to successfully do all that, but the fact that they are even in that position is a significant accomplishment.

 

[mayoclinic]

For the first time in almost a decade, I believe that the patriots have real competition for the division. Yes, the jets have issues. So, do we. The jets have the #1 defense in the nfl, the #1 running game and a top OL. Their weakness is their rookie qb who just had the best performance of any rookie qb ever in their first playoff game. Even if they lose some of that, they will be top contender for the division.

As far as the jets being in huge cap problems unless the cap is eliminated, I think we can wait and see. Posters have said that about the colts for at least 10 years, and it has never been true and their cap situation certainly have not crippled their team. The jets organization isn't as good, but it is competent and improving. They are not likely to make critical mistakes regarding the cap; why should we expect that they would do so?

I think that's a fair analysis. Although the Dolphins won the division last year, I don't think anyone thougth they had the talent to compete with the Patriots on a long term basis. The Jets, however, have a very solid talent base. Making the playoffs and getting some wins under their belt will probably only accelerate their development.

Absolutely, they could take one or more steps backwards, or could be a one time phenomenon. But their nucleus of talent, and their structure - defense first with a strong running game - argues against that. And their passing game should improve. Sanchez was a top 5 pick and he clearly has talent. The Jets rushed him in too fast, and he has taken a beating at times this year, but he seems to have a strong enough psyche to have weathered the storm without losing his confidence and poise. Yesterday's performance was very solid. There's no reason to suppose that he won't get better, and at least be a solid QB for them to build around for the future.

The Jets absolutely have to deal with some aging players, some major contract issues, and some holes to plug. But no more than any other team. In fact, they may have fewer holes than the Pats do right now. And while we've laughed at Tanenbaum and some of his mistakes and big contracts, it's not at all clear that the Jets will suddenly hit the kind of "salary cap hell" that crippled the Titans around 2006. Several teams, including Washington and the Raiders, seem to have gotten away with throwing a lot of money at players without incurring penalties. I'm not enough of a capologist to figure out how it all works, but with the CBA up in the air right now I wouldn't bet on the salary cap suddenly wreaking vengeance on the Jets.

I welcome having some serious competition within the division. I'm sure BB will rise to the challenge, and it will make for some interesting games down the road. Beating Rex Ryan is every bit as satisfying as beating Eric Mangini.

 

[Wretch]

When you look at the whole roster of both teams. I give the Jets decisive advantages at 3 position (including FB and considering the Pats don't carry one I am being generous). I may be a bit of a homer on my evaluations but I think when you look at total depth I think the Pats win at 9 positions (QB and WR where the Pats have a decisive advantages). There are positions that I gave an overall depth advantage to the Pats because but would be willing to accept debate to my evaluation are CB, G, RB, and TE.

CB Revis is great but the other Jets CB are pedestrian.

G Faneca I think is countered by Mankins and Neal, when healthy is a very good.

RB Jones is good but overall the pats have more depth and part of Jone's attraction is the Jets offensive scheme.

TE Keller an Watson are a wash, great talent not realized on the field.

Since teams are built primarily through the draft I don't think you can disagree to much with BB draft philosophy versus the Jets.

Name Pos Status DOB Years Team Advantage
Mangold, Nick C ACT 1/13/1984 4 Jets Jets
Koppen, Dan C ACT 9/12/1979 7 Patriots

Cole, Marquice CB ACT 11/13/1983 1 Jets Even
Coleman, Drew CB ACT 4/22/1983 4 Jets
Lowery, Dwight CB ACT 1/23/1986 2 Jets
Revis, Darrelle CB ACT 7/14/1985 3 Jets
Sheppard, Lito CB ACT 4/8/1981 8 Jets
Strickland, DonaldCB ACT 11/24/1980 7 Jets
Arrington, Kyle CB ACT 8/12/1986 1 Patriots
Bodden, Leigh CB ACT 9/24/1981 7 Patriots
Butler, Darius CB ACT 3/18/1986 0 Patriots
Springs, Shawn CB ACT 3/11/1975 13 Patriots
Wheatley, TerrenceCB ACT 5/5/1985 2 Patriots
Wilhite, Jonathan CB ACT 2/23/1984 2 Patriots
Ihedigbo, James DB ACT 12/3/1983 3 Jets
Chung, Pat DB ACT 8/19/1987 0 Patriots
Lockett, Bret DB RES 10/7/1986 0 Patriots

Devito, Mike DE ACT 6/10/1984 3 Jets Patriots
Douglas, Marques DE ACT 3/15/1977 9 Jets
Ellis, Shaun DE ACT 6/24/1977 10 Jets
Green, Jarvis DE ACT 1/12/1979 8 Patriots
Ninkovich, Rob DE ACT 2/1/1984 4 Patriots
Warren, Ty DE ACT 2/6/1981 7 Patriots

Jenkins, Kris DT RES 8/3/1979 9 Jets Patriots
Pouha, Sione DT ACT 2/3/1979 5 Jets
Green, Howard DT ACT 1/12/1979 5 Jets
Pitoitua, Ropati DT ACT 4/6/1985 1 Jets
Brace, Ron DT ACT 12/18/1986 0 Patriots
Pryor, Myron DT ACT 6/13/1986 0 Patriots
Wilfork, Vince DT ACT 11/4/1981 6 Patriots
Wright, Mike DT ACT 3/1/1982 5 Patriots

Richardson, Tony FB ACT 12/17/1971 15 Jets Jets

Rhodes, Kerry FS ACT 8/2/1982 5 Jets Patriots
McGowan, BrandonFS ACT 9/26/1983 5 Patriots
Sanders, James FS ACT 11/11/1983 5 Patriots

Faneca, Alan G ACT 12/7/1976 12 Jets Patriots
Moore, Brandon G ACT 6/3/1980 7 Jets
Slauson, Matt G ACT 2/18/1986 0 Jets
Turner, Robert G ACT 8/20/1984 2 Jets
Connolly, Dan G ACT 9/2/1982 4 Patriots
Mankins, Logan G ACT 3/10/1982 5 Patriots
Neal, Stephen G ACT 10/9/1976 8 Patriots
Ohrnberger, Rich G ACT 2/14/1986 0 Patriots
Wendell, Ryan G ACT 3/4/1986 1 Patriots

Harris, David ILB ACT 1/21/1984 3 Jets Jets
Scott, Bart ILB ACT 8/18/1980 8 Jets
Guyton, Gary ILB ACT 11/14/1985 2 Patriots
Mayo, Jerod ILB ACT 2/23/1986 2 Patriots

Feely, Jay K ACT 5/26/1976 9 Jets Pats
Gostkowski K ACT 1/28/1984 4 Patriots

Cummings, Kenwin LB ACT 7/23/1986 1 Jets Even
Fowler, Ryan LB ACT 5/20/1982 6 Jets
Izzo, Larry LB RES 9/26/1974 14 Jets
Murrell, Marques LB ACT 3/20/1985 3 Jets
Westerman LB ACT 2/21/1985 0 Jets
Alexander, Eric LB ACT 2/8/1982 5 Patriots
McKenzie, Tyrone LB RES 12/11/1985 0 Patriots
Seau, Junior LB ACT 1/19/1969 19 Patriots
Williams, Thomas LB ACT 12/25/1984 2 Patriots

Dearth, James LS ACT 1/22/1976 9 Jets Even
Ingram, Jake LS ACT 10/23/1985 0 Patriots

Gholston, Vernon OLB ACT 3/28/1985 2 Jets Even
Pace, Calvin OLB ACT 10/28/1980 7 Jets
Thomas, Bryan OLB ACT 6/7/1979 8 Jets
Banta-Cain, Tully OLB ACT 8/28/1980 7 Patriots
Burgess, Derrick OLB ACT 8/12/1978 9 Patriots
Crable, Shawn OLB RES 12/26/1984 2 Patriots
Thomas, Adalius OLB ACT 8/18/1977 10 Patriots
Woods, Pierre OLB ACT 1/6/1982 4 Patriots

Weatherford P ACT 12/17/1982 6 Jets Even
Hanson, Chris P ACT 10/25/1976 11 Patriots

Ainge, Erik QB ACT 6/12/1986 2 Jets Patriots
Clemens, Kellen QB ACT 6/7/1983 4 Jets
O'Connell, Kevin QB ACT 5/25/1985 2 Jets
Sanchez, Mark QB ACT 11/11/1986 0 Jets
Brady, Tom QB ACT 8/3/1977 10 Patriots
Hoyer, Brian QB ACT 10/13/1985 0 Patriots

Greene, Shonn RB ACT 8/21/1985 0 Jets Even
Jones, Thomas RB ACT 8/19/1978 10 Jets
Washington RB ACT 4/29/1985 2 Jets
Washington, Leon RB RES 8/29/1982 4 Jets
Faulk, Kevin RB ACT 6/5/1976 11 Patriots
Green-Ellis RB ACT 7/2/1985 2 Patriots
Maroney RB ACT 2/5/1985 4 Patriots
Morris, Sammy RB ACT 3/23/1977 10 Patriots
Taylor, Chris RB RES 11/7/1983 4 Patriots
Taylor, Fred RB ACT 1/27/1976 12 Patriots

Leonhard, Jim SS ACT 10/27/1982 5 Jets Patriots
Smith, Eric SS ACT 3/17/1983 4 Jets
Meriweather SS ACT 1/14/1984 3 Patriots

Ferguson, D'Brick T ACT 12/10/1983 4 Jets Patriots
Hunter, Wayne T ACT 7/2/1981 6 Jets
Woody, Damien T ACT 11/3/1977 11 Jets
Bussey, George T RES 10/24/1984 0 Patriots
Kaczur, Nick T ACT 7/28/1979 5 Patriots
LeVoir, Mark T ACT 7/29/1982 3 Patriots
Light, Matt T ACT 6/23/1978 9 Patriots
Vollmer, Sebastian T ACT 7/10/1984 0 Patriots

Hartsock, Ben TE ACT 7/5/1980 6 Jets Even
Keller, Dustin TE ACT 9/25/1984 2 Jets
Mulligan, Matthew TE ACT 1/18/1985 1 Jets
Baker, Chris TE ACT 11/18/1979 8 Patriots
Watson, Benjamin TE ACT 12/18/1980 6 Patriots

Allison, Aundrae WR RES 6/25/1984 3 Jets Patriots
Clowney, David WR ACT 7/8/1985 2 Jets
Cotchery, Jerricho WR ACT 6/16/1982 6 Jets
Edwards, Braylon WR ACT 2/21/1983 5 Jets
Smith, Brad WR ACT 12/12/1983 4 Jets
Woodhead, Danny WR ACT 1/25/1985 2 Jets
Wright, Wallace WR ACT 2/1/1984 3 Jets
Aiken, Sam WR ACT 12/14/1980 7 Patriots
Edelman, Julian WR ACT 5/22/1986 0 Patriots
Moss, Randy WR ACT 2/13/1977 12 Patriots
Slater, Matt WR ACT 9/9/1985 2 Patriots
Stanback, Isaiah WR ACT 8/16/1984 3 Patriots
Tate, Brandon WR RES 10/5/1987 0 Patriots
Welker, Wes WR RES 5/1/1981 6 Patriots

 

[cstjohn17]

When you look at the whole roster of both teams. I give the Jets decisive advantages at 3 position (including FB and considering the Pats don't carry one I am being generous). I may be a bit of a homer on my evaluations but I think when you look at total depth I think the Pats win at 9 positions (QB and WR where the Pats have a decisive advantages). There are positions that I gave an overall depth advantage to the Pats because but would be willing to accept debate to my evaluation are CB, G, RB, and TE.

CB Revis is great but the other Jets CB are pedestrian.

G Faneca I think is countered by Mankins and Neal, when healthy is a very good.

RB Jones is good but overall the pats have more depth and part of Jone's attraction is the Jets offensive scheme.

TE Keller an Watson are a wash, great talent not realized on the field.

Since teams are built primarily through the draft I don't think you can disagree to much with BB draft philosophy versus the Jets.

Name Pos Status DOB Years Team Advantage
Mangold, Nick C ACT 1/13/1984 4 Jets Jets
Koppen, Dan C ACT 9/12/1979 7 Patriots

Cole, Marquice CB ACT 11/13/1983 1 Jets Even
Coleman, Drew CB ACT 4/22/1983 4 Jets
Lowery, Dwight CB ACT 1/23/1986 2 Jets
Revis, Darrelle CB ACT 7/14/1985 3 Jets
Sheppard, Lito CB ACT 4/8/1981 8 Jets
Strickland, DonaldCB ACT 11/24/1980 7 Jets
Arrington, Kyle CB ACT 8/12/1986 1 Patriots
Bodden, Leigh CB ACT 9/24/1981 7 Patriots
Butler, Darius CB ACT 3/18/1986 0 Patriots
Springs, Shawn CB ACT 3/11/1975 13 Patriots
Wheatley, TerrenceCB ACT 5/5/1985 2 Patriots
Wilhite, Jonathan CB ACT 2/23/1984 2 Patriots
Ihedigbo, James DB ACT 12/3/1983 3 Jets
Chung, Pat DB ACT 8/19/1987 0 Patriots
Lockett, Bret DB RES 10/7/1986 0 Patriots

Devito, Mike DE ACT 6/10/1984 3 Jets Patriots
Douglas, Marques DE ACT 3/15/1977 9 Jets
Ellis, Shaun DE ACT 6/24/1977 10 Jets
Green, Jarvis DE ACT 1/12/1979 8 Patriots
Ninkovich, Rob DE ACT 2/1/1984 4 Patriots
Warren, Ty DE ACT 2/6/1981 7 Patriots

Jenkins, Kris DT RES 8/3/1979 9 Jets Patriots
Pouha, Sione DT ACT 2/3/1979 5 Jets
Green, Howard DT ACT 1/12/1979 5 Jets
Pitoitua, Ropati DT ACT 4/6/1985 1 Jets
Brace, Ron DT ACT 12/18/1986 0 Patriots
Pryor, Myron DT ACT 6/13/1986 0 Patriots
Wilfork, Vince DT ACT 11/4/1981 6 Patriots
Wright, Mike DT ACT 3/1/1982 5 Patriots

Richardson, Tony FB ACT 12/17/1971 15 Jets Jets

Rhodes, Kerry FS ACT 8/2/1982 5 Jets Patriots
McGowan, BrandonFS ACT 9/26/1983 5 Patriots
Sanders, James FS ACT 11/11/1983 5 Patriots

Faneca, Alan G ACT 12/7/1976 12 Jets Patriots
Moore, Brandon G ACT 6/3/1980 7 Jets
Slauson, Matt G ACT 2/18/1986 0 Jets
Turner, Robert G ACT 8/20/1984 2 Jets
Connolly, Dan G ACT 9/2/1982 4 Patriots
Mankins, Logan G ACT 3/10/1982 5 Patriots
Neal, Stephen G ACT 10/9/1976 8 Patriots
Ohrnberger, Rich G ACT 2/14/1986 0 Patriots
Wendell, Ryan G ACT 3/4/1986 1 Patriots

Harris, David ILB ACT 1/21/1984 3 Jets Jets
Scott, Bart ILB ACT 8/18/1980 8 Jets
Guyton, Gary ILB ACT 11/14/1985 2 Patriots
Mayo, Jerod ILB ACT 2/23/1986 2 Patriots

Feely, Jay K ACT 5/26/1976 9 Jets Pats
Gostkowski K ACT 1/28/1984 4 Patriots

Cummings, Kenwin LB ACT 7/23/1986 1 Jets Even
Fowler, Ryan LB ACT 5/20/1982 6 Jets
Izzo, Larry LB RES 9/26/1974 14 Jets
Murrell, Marques LB ACT 3/20/1985 3 Jets
Westerman LB ACT 2/21/1985 0 Jets
Alexander, Eric LB ACT 2/8/1982 5 Patriots
McKenzie, Tyrone LB RES 12/11/1985 0 Patriots
Seau, Junior LB ACT 1/19/1969 19 Patriots
Williams, Thomas LB ACT 12/25/1984 2 Patriots

Dearth, James LS ACT 1/22/1976 9 Jets Even
Ingram, Jake LS ACT 10/23/1985 0 Patriots

Gholston, Vernon OLB ACT 3/28/1985 2 Jets Even
Pace, Calvin OLB ACT 10/28/1980 7 Jets
Thomas, Bryan OLB ACT 6/7/1979 8 Jets
Banta-Cain, Tully OLB ACT 8/28/1980 7 Patriots
Burgess, Derrick OLB ACT 8/12/1978 9 Patriots
Crable, Shawn OLB RES 12/26/1984 2 Patriots
Thomas, Adalius OLB ACT 8/18/1977 10 Patriots
Woods, Pierre OLB ACT 1/6/1982 4 Patriots

Weatherford P ACT 12/17/1982 6 Jets Even
Hanson, Chris P ACT 10/25/1976 11 Patriots

Ainge, Erik QB ACT 6/12/1986 2 Jets Patriots
Clemens, Kellen QB ACT 6/7/1983 4 Jets
O'Connell, Kevin QB ACT 5/25/1985 2 Jets
Sanchez, Mark QB ACT 11/11/1986 0 Jets
Brady, Tom QB ACT 8/3/1977 10 Patriots
Hoyer, Brian QB ACT 10/13/1985 0 Patriots

Greene, Shonn RB ACT 8/21/1985 0 Jets Even
Jones, Thomas RB ACT 8/19/1978 10 Jets
Washington RB ACT 4/29/1985 2 Jets
Washington, Leon RB RES 8/29/1982 4 Jets
Faulk, Kevin RB ACT 6/5/1976 11 Patriots
Green-Ellis RB ACT 7/2/1985 2 Patriots
Maroney RB ACT 2/5/1985 4 Patriots
Morris, Sammy RB ACT 3/23/1977 10 Patriots
Taylor, Chris RB RES 11/7/1983 4 Patriots
Taylor, Fred RB ACT 1/27/1976 12 Patriots

Leonhard, Jim SS ACT 10/27/1982 5 Jets Patriots
Smith, Eric SS ACT 3/17/1983 4 Jets
Meriweather SS ACT 1/14/1984 3 Patriots

Ferguson, D'Brick T ACT 12/10/1983 4 Jets Patriots
Hunter, Wayne T ACT 7/2/1981 6 Jets
Woody, Damien T ACT 11/3/1977 11 Jets
Bussey, George T RES 10/24/1984 0 Patriots
Kaczur, Nick T ACT 7/28/1979 5 Patriots
LeVoir, Mark T ACT 7/29/1982 3 Patriots
Light, Matt T ACT 6/23/1978 9 Patriots
Vollmer, Sebastian T ACT 7/10/1984 0 Patriots

Hartsock, Ben TE ACT 7/5/1980 6 Jets Even
Keller, Dustin TE ACT 9/25/1984 2 Jets
Mulligan, Matthew TE ACT 1/18/1985 1 Jets
Baker, Chris TE ACT 11/18/1979 8 Patriots
Watson, Benjamin TE ACT 12/18/1980 6 Patriots

Allison, Aundrae WR RES 6/25/1984 3 Jets Patriots
Clowney, David WR ACT 7/8/1985 2 Jets
Cotchery, Jerricho WR ACT 6/16/1982 6 Jets
Edwards, Braylon WR ACT 2/21/1983 5 Jets
Smith, Brad WR ACT 12/12/1983 4 Jets
Woodhead, Danny WR ACT 1/25/1985 2 Jets
Wright, Wallace WR ACT 2/1/1984 3 Jets
Aiken, Sam WR ACT 12/14/1980 7 Patriots
Edelman, Julian WR ACT 5/22/1986 0 Patriots
Moss, Randy WR ACT 2/13/1977 12 Patriots
Slater, Matt WR ACT 9/9/1985 2 Patriots
Stanback, Isaiah WR ACT 8/16/1984 3 Patriots
Tate, Brandon WR RES 10/5/1987 0 Patriots
Welker, Wes WR RES 5/1/1981 6 Patriots

Someone was bored

Lets look at it unit by unit.

QB - Patriots
WR - Patriots
O Line - Jets
RB - Jets
TE - Even, slight edge to Jets because Keller is younger

D Line - Patriots
LB - Jets
CB - Jets
Safety - Jets

Special Teams - even, edge for Ghost, edge for Washington as a returner

 

[BritPat]

Someone was bored

Lets look at it unit by unit.

QB - Patriots
WR - Patriots
O Line - Jets
RB - Jets
TE - Even, slight edge to Jets because Keller is younger

D Line - Patriots
LB - Jets
CB - Jets
Safety - Jets

Special Teams - even, edge for Ghost, edge for Washington as a returner

Cornerback? Safety? Come on fella.

Outside of Revis their CB's are awful. Teams have been targeting Shpeherd for a reason. Strickland's a JAG and Lowery's awful. We might not have the truly elite corner, but ours are a much better group overall.

As for Safety it's not close. Meriweather's better than Rhodes or Leonhard, McGowan's as good as the latter, as is Sanders, and Chung's a very solid young player. Can you even name the Jets #3 and #4 Safeties?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The price for a 10-20 prospect is not that prohibitive. However, we haven't every done that. The closest we came was 2003/2004. In 2003 we had picks 13 and 19, and we traded back to 36 with the #19 pick. We took both 1st round picks in 2004, but they were 21 and 32. We had 10 and 31 in 2008, but the commish took 31 away from us for Spygate.

In the draft BB has historically taken 3 down players in the first round (little projecting as humanly possible); and has a near 100% success rate.
In the second round of the draft BB needs to take medium to high risk, but high potential ceiling guys; and has a 50%-65% hit rate depending on how you see this year's group evolving.
In the third round (non compensation) he tends to take "system" type guys and has a near 100% FAILURE rate.

So in my mind, I think BB should stick to what he does best. Grade guys with first round, 3 down grades.

But regardless of what strategy BB employs, the biggest (literally) factor yet to be determined remains the situation with Wilfork.

 

[Wretch]

Someone was bored

Lets look at it unit by unit.

QB - Patriots
WR - Patriots
O Line - Jets
RB - Jets
TE - Even, slight edge to Jets because Keller is younger

D Line - Patriots
LB - Jets
CB - Jets
Safety - Jets

Special Teams - even, edge for Ghost, edge for Washington as a returner

I think the O line is a win for the Pats. Mangold, is a clear win for the Jets. Faneca is good, but Mankins is right there with him. Neal is as good or better than anyone else at guard for the Jets. Ferguson is good but Light is a good LT and Vollmer is better than the Jets other OTs.

CB I agree with Brit, Revis is great but the rest of the DB including safeties are suspect. The Pats are clearly better at safety than the Jets.

RB could be a push in my mind. Jones is good and a work horse, Greene is going to be good but the Pats have great depth at that position and overall I think the Pats have more versatility and talent in the RB position than the Jets. I think the Jets RBs get over valued a bit because they are such a run heavy offense.

TE Neither Keller nor Watson are slouches in the talent department and neither is old and youth isn't always an advantage when it comes to reading coverages, blocking technique and professionalism.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I think the O line is a win for the Pats. Mangold, is a clear win for the Jets. Faneca is good, but Mankins is right there with him. Neal is as good or better than anyone else at guard for the Jets. Ferguson is good but Light is a good LT and Vollmer is better than the Jets other OTs.

CB I agree with Brit, Revis is great but the rest of the DB including safeties are suspect. The Pats are clearly better at safety than the Jets.

RB could be a push in my mind. Jones is good and a work horse, Greene is going to be good but the Pats have great depth at that position and overall I think the Pats have more versatility and talent in the RB position than the Jets. I think the Jets RBs get over valued a bit because they are such a run heavy offense.

TE Neither Keller nor Watson are slouches in the talent department and neither is old and youth isn't always an advantage when it comes to reading coverages, blocking technique and professionalism.

I think the Jets are a vastly superior run blocking unit and we area slightly better pass blocking unit.

 

[cstjohn17]

Cornerback? Safety? Come on fella.

Outside of Revis their CB's are awful. Teams have been targeting Shpeherd for a reason. Strickland's a JAG and Lowery's awful. We might not have the truly elite corner, but ours are a much better group overall.

As for Safety it's not close. Meriweather's better than Rhodes or Leonhard, McGowan's as good as the latter, as is Sanders, and Chung's a very solid young player. Can you even name the Jets #3 and #4 Safeties?

Easy big guy, rate them anyway you want. I don't see a lot of Jet games but watch all Patriot games (that could make me biased against the Pats because I see their mistakes not just the highlights).

CB - Not even close, Revis has the ability to shutdown an entire side of the field. He is a difference maker, teams have to game plan against him. The only game plan against the Patriots CBs is "Lets throw it a lot because they cannot cover". Lowery and Shepperd as #2 and #3 CBs are as good or better than any combo of Butler/ Springs / Wilhite. Slam dunk for the Jets.

Safety - I still see a draw, both teams are full of average players, nothing special either way. I would give a slight edge to the Jets because they tend not to give up the long play or miss assignments (see Merriweather).

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Easy big guy, rate them anyway you want. I don't see a lot of Jet games but watch all Patriot games (that could make me biased against the Pats because I see their mistakes not just the highlights).

CB - Not even close, Revis has the ability to shutdown an entire side of the field. He is a difference maker, teams have to game plan against him. The only game plan against the Patriots CBs is "Lets throw it a lot because they cannot cover". Lowery and Shepperd as #2 and #3 CBs are as good or better than any combo of Butler/ Springs / Wilhite. Slam dunk for the Jets.

Safety - I still see a draw, both teams are full of average players, nothing special either way. I would give a slight edge to the Jets because they tend not to give up the long play or miss assignments (see Merriweather).

If your team has shutdown corners, the safeties have the opportunity to become huge playmakers all over the field because they are not locked into double covering players. And the Jets safeties are doing that weekly. Ours remain inconsistent at best and inexperience remains a concern.

The shutdown corners give the Jets safeties more opportunities and exposure, But I believe Rhodes was benched for a good portion of the year this year. The Jets defense did not really takeoff until the safety position got sorted out, when Rhodes returned to the starting line up.

 

[Wretch]

I think the Jets are a vastly superior run blocking unit and we area slightly better pass blocking unit.

Jets Regular Season
G Pts/G TotPts Att Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Lng
16 21.8 348 607 37.9 2,756 4.5 172.2 21 71T
New England Patriots
16 26.7 427 466 29.1 1,921 4.1 120.1 19 55

The Jets are a good running team but the Pats ain't too bad.

 

[Metaphors]

As long as there is a salary cap and FA, I don't believe it is possible for any team to be "set for the long term".

That is kind of the underlying point of the "draft strategy" discussion. If there is no cap, then the strategy is different. You can spend as much as you want, so FA and short-term results become more important. As for the draft, collect as many high first-rounders as possible since you will be able to pay them (and pay to keep them). The number of draft picks you get every year isn't overly important since you can plug any gaps with FA and you will always be able to minimize your own FA losses. In this scenario, there really isn't a "long term"...just a series of short-terms.

If there is a cap, the approach above is impractical in the long-term. You get a couple of high-priced draft picks each year, which leaves substantial gaps to be filled through FA. In the case of the Jets, this resulted in a boatload of sizable long-term contracts. Now the bills come due for their high draft picks (Revis, Harris, Mangold) and they have choices to make.

So while you say that the Jets have the #1 D and #1 rush offense, almost none of it came at a cheap price. After 2010, they have some hard decisions to make if there is a cap. While every team goes through this to some degree, the Jets have some huge salaries committed to players in their 30's. The Colts have a very different approach in that they let certain positions walk (RB, OT, DT, OLB, CB) and replace them with cheap draft picks. This allows the Colts to have consistency with their QB, WR, C, DE and S...the positions that form the basis of their non-playoff success.

The Jets approach can generally buy you a window of contention, but then you need some time to reset while the cap situation corrects itself. The Jets are in year 2 of a 3-year window. The unfortunate thing for them (and the part that the Redskins always got wrong) is that their QB isn't ready to close the deal yet. If/when he is ready, I doubt the Jets will have a #1 defense or #1 running game.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The Jets approach can generally buy you a window of contention, but then you need some time to reset while the cap situation corrects itself. The Jets are in year 2 of a 3-year window.

However if you can compliment those 1 or 2 blue chippers per year with high quality UDFA players then the cap should not be a huge problem.

And which team has an excellent track record of developing UDFA talent? BB does. So theoretically the Jets strategy should work real well for BB.

PS: I think San Diego has the best record of all teams at signing UDFA talent,but for some reason, they fail to to keep the players, who sign with other teams and become stars.

 

[Brarrell]

My biggest problem with the Pats is the fact when they draft players that can play in their system and have won in their system you should approach these guys a year early or so and resign them before FA. The Pats have let to many players leave because they don't take care of their own players. Once these guys get close to FA their gone because the way they feel they have been treated having to play out their rookie contracts. If the idea is to let players play out their rookie contract let them go and draft someone to replace them let's say Asante it's been a failure IMO. Every year for the last 2-3 years we have been saying they need to draft pass rushers I suppose BB knows more than me but I always believe what my eyes tell me and they desperately need a couple pass rushers it will improve their pass D. As it is now I believe the Jets are ready to zip by us and the Dolphins are right behind. A lot of what has happened to the Pats this year has been self inflicted bad personnel decisions and the owners IMO not wanting to spend bonus money whether to keep their own which is my preference or going out and signing some solid vets.

 

[StraightCashHomey81]

I think the best value in most drafts (depends on the available talent every year) is between the 2nd and 4th Rds. For me an ideal strategy would be this:

Trade out of the first round, stockpiling picks.
Trade 4th-7th round picks to move up into the 2nd or 3rd Rds or trade these picks for future picks in higher rounds (i.e. a 2010 4th for 2011 3rd).
Ideally, you would end up with 5-6 picks in 2-4, and then use later round (and untradeable) compensatory picks to fill out a training camp roster.

The Pats did employ part of this strategy, when from previous trades and draft day trades they at point had four 2nd round picks and 4 3rd round picks. They then traded 2 of the 3rd round picks for future picks (two Rd this year). Employing my strategy, they would have dealt some of their lower round picks for future picks or an extra 3rd or 4th round pick in that draft. However they wouldn't have ended up with two of their better players from this years draft, Pryor (6th rd.) and Edelman (7th rd.)