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Draft Addressed MY concerns

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AndyJohnson, Apr 28, 2008.

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  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My opinion was that there were 2 primary problems that cost us the SB, one of which also cost us the AFCC Game the year before. That one isnt the OL, and my feeling is that the OL was so good for 18 games, that changes due to the 19th are not necessary. You must distinguish between unacceptable players or a bad day.
    The factor that cost us 2 years in a row is playing pass defense when the other team is in a comeback or 2 minute offense. In the SB we were horrendous in these situations with Gay as the nickel, and Rodney at S failing to come close to covering receivers who ran a "run toward him, cut and run away route" and were always open. Additonally, the coverage from the LB position was not strong in those situations, and the pass rush lacked depth, wearing down in both games.
    In the draft, we found 2 corners who are substantially quicker and more agile than Gay. We found a mobile ILB who can cover. We found the safety last year. We also drafted a potential pass rusher in Crable who can keep Vrabel and Thomas fresh, plus have added 3 other corners in FA, a safety in FA and another starting caliber LB in FA.

    My opinion after 18-1 was that the OL is far better than it played in the SB, yet if we could defend 80 yards once out of 2 chances, we still win, and the Achilles Heel of this team was being able to cover in situations where the offense is throwing every down.
    We are replacing the guys like Gay, who is a pretty good cover2 corner, but terrible covering one on one in the slot, (and may have as many as 4 players on the roster beyond the starters that are A LOT better) Harrison will not be playing in the secondary in those situaitons (but may be a nickel LB) and have added Hobson and Mayo as potential nickel cover LBs, plus Crabel who could allow Vrabel or Thomas to play in coverage in those situaitons at times as well.

    If the PRIMARY ISSUE to correct this off-season was pass defense in obvious passing situations (2 minute, and come from behind) resulting from poor nickel, safety, and LB coverage in those obvious passing situations, I give BB an A in fixing it.
  2. bbabin

    bbabin Rookie

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    It was really interesting seeing the progression from the loss in the AFCC to the loss in the SB. One can never be sure, but I bet its safe to say that BB was surprised, to say the least, that we didn't outscore the Giants.

    I trust your analysis and definitely agree that the two minute D was the major problem. It seemed like there were some opportunities last offseason to improve (AT, Meriweather) but not enough to get the defense where he might have wanted it, so he went on the other side and created an incredible offense to go along with it. "Hey, what are the chances that this high powered offense has its an off day in the same game that the defense can't hold when given two chances??"

    They weren't good but also weren't zero. Oh well... I'm looking forward to this defense with the tight cover corners, young LBs, and maybe most importantly Dom Capers, who will hopefully inject some creativity as well as allow BB to pay attention to the game as a whole instead of turning his back on the offense and/or special teams.
  3. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thus spoke Zarathustra.

    And got it right, too.
  4. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Only scoring 14 points is what cost the Patriots the Super Bowl. It was not the defense. It was not special teams. It was the inability to score more than 14 points. There's not a play, or player, in the world that is prepared to defend the "He caught it with his helmet!" play.

    The team allowed its season average for points in a game, but had its lowest offensive output of the season.

    However, having defended the defense's honor, let me say that I'm glad you like the team's draft and I hope it gives you cause for much joy and anticipation as the upcoming season approaches.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
  5. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    I think our lack of speed in the back 7 made us play more conservative. We didn't want to expose certain players/parts of the field. Because, there wasn't much help coming from behind. I think Meriweather, Mayo and Wheatley(replaces R. Gay as nickel.) gives us that flexibility to tinker a little. I still think we bring in a veteran cb who will beat out F.Bryant at LCB. My guess is T.Law. Wouldn't be shocked if it's Lito Shepherd either. We do have an extra 2 we can afford to give up now.
  6. deeds

    deeds Rookie

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    I agree with Andy 100%

    I don't mean to offend you are start a verbal war but, in my opinion you are wrong. This game was not lost on one play "He caught it with his helmet!" The defense could not make a single play in those last two minutes. There were signs of pass coverage problems all year but no one wanted to admit it.

    I don't know what the problem was.... Gay, Harrison, Hobbs or the LB's. Again, the problem in both games Andy mentioned was our inability to make a defensive play at the end of the game...

    thanks
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
  7. MosiT

    MosiT Banned

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    You are correct. In the second quarter, and the early minutes of the third quarter, the Pats were still ahead by a score of 7-3 and had three successive possessions in which they did absolutely nothing offensively.

    In fact, in the two possessions in the second quarter they went three and out on both of them, not because they were inept but more so because the play calling was horrible and it played directly into what the Giants were doing on defense. I am sure they thanked us very much for that.

    And with the opening possession of the third quarter, another chance to take control went by the boards.

    The chances were there to put the game out of reach for the Giants and we didnt take advantage. Thats where the game was really lost, not on the last TD by the4 Giants with 2 minutes to play.

    By then, that TD should have been meaningless.
  8. MosiT

    MosiT Banned

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    The last drive of the game by the Giants should have been meaningless. See my post above.
  9. stcjones

    stcjones Rookie

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    The OL inability to stop or slow down the Gint one dimensional blitz rush on almost every play.....Brady's injury..........and McD/BB inability to make adjustments to make them pay when they kept bringing the house.....is what cost the Pats the SB........the defense had played well overall.......when you watch that last drive (and I don't advise it too often because it causes too much pain) you will see Gomer get "lucky break......after lucky break....after lucky break"........Had the Pats D made just one of those count ....we would have been SB champs again.......so.......I first and foremost blame the O and the coaches......with a small chunk of blame on the Pats D for not making at least ONE of the countless turnover opps count when needed........PS....In all sense of the rule on "in the grasp" ....it seemed to me that Gomer was in fact....in the grasp.......
  10. deeds

    deeds Rookie

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    Believe me, I agree with you. There's no excuse for the lack of scoring but when you have a lead at the end of a game of that magnitude and the other team has to throw on every down, you got to be able to make at least one play...

    I'm done on this topic, it's too painful to re-live the details...


    have a good night
  11. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I dont care if the offense mustered only 8 points.....a Championship defense does not allow the opposing teams offense to drive the length of the field and score a TD in the last two minutes. Should NEVER happen and it has happened to us two year in a row now.
  12. JoePats

    JoePats Rookie

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    Putting aside the reasons for Super Bowl loss debate (both sides were equally to blame)...I agree completely with Andy that 2 new corners were needed in this draft and 2 linebackers, one to be a rush linebacker.

    The name of the game is pass-rushing. Not just because of the Giants mind you but look at the top teams in the AFC. The Colts have Freeney and Mathis, the Chargers have Merriman and Phillips, the Steelers have Harrison and are always adept at getting pass pressure. You want to beat a good passing attack? Get to the QB...that is something the Giants clearly did.

    The early down pass rush should be improved too since Thomas will be able to play exclusively (or at least mostly) outside, with Mayo, Bruschi, Hobson, and hopefully Seau rotating on the inside. Thomas is our best pass rusher. Replacing Colvin was an issue, and I think Thomas basically replaces Colvin. Thomas was sensational in the Super Bowl to the point where if one play was made on the last drive (I think he was one of the group to whiff on the play which I won't mention), he could have been MVP of the game.

    Crable should help too in keeping Thomas and Vrable fresh. Maybe Woods can get on the field in these situations as well, who knows. Personally I'd like to see a 4-man line of Vrabel, Thomas, Green, and Crable/Woods in 3rd and longs.

    I'm not sure if the secondary play will be better (certainly the slot defense will) but I am very confident we will have a better pass rushing unit than we had at the end of the season after Colvin got hurt.

    I'm thinking if Hobbs improves, as he is still in his growth phase, and the pass rush improves, and Seymour bounces back a little, the defense will be better than it was last year.
  13. JoePats

    JoePats Rookie

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    Not just the last drive but the one before as well last year and two years ago the defense gave up 330 yards in the 2nd half or some ridiculous number like that.
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Apparently many here are satisfied with a team that needs to score enough to lead by more than 8 with 2 minutes to go, since they can't count on the defense to stop a final drive. There is no such thing as a gut check at crunch time.

  15. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Now all that's left is hoping McDaniels doesn't f it all up this year.
  16. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :confused:

    2001 vs. Rams, from NFL.com's play-by-play:
    2003 vs Panthers, from NFL.com's play-by-play
    2004 vs Eagles, from NFL.com's play-by-play:

    Three Super Bowl victories, 3 scores by the opponent inside of two minutes left in the game.

    Game scores:
    Patriots vs Rams: 20-17
    Patriots vs Panthers: 32-29
    Patriots vs Eagles: 24-21

    So, the best offensive team in history scored fewer points than any of the 3 Super Bowl winning Patriots teams, and the losing team from this past season surrendered the fewest points (along with the 2001 team) of the 4 recent Super Bowl Patriots teams. All 4 of the Patriots' Super Bowl teams this decade surrendered a touchdown inside of two minutes, and 3 of them still won. Let's try avoiding the revisionist history.

    It was the offense's failing, not the defense.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2008
  17. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I think I might want to wait until I actually see some of the rookies play in a game before I declare my concerns addressed.

    I'm funny like that.
  18. mac

    mac Rookie

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    Well-put. And I am positive BB agrees with you. Hence this draft. And hopefully upcoming changes to on-field defensive personnel.
  19. Topher

    Topher Rookie

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    I see where you are coming from, but don't completely agree. While the Pats D "bent" but didnt break for much of the SB, I thought they allowed the Giants offense to control the ball and dictate the flow of the game.

    Furthermore, I dont disregard the fact that the offense may have been undermined by the pressure of having to go out there and put up 30+ points. While the defense was admirable, if the coaching staff had greater confidence in them going in, our offensive play calling may have looked a little different.
  20. tunafish

    tunafish Rookie

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    I'm pretty positive that if McDaniels knew how to make adjustments we would have won that game. I'm also pretty positive that if the D came away with a stop we would have won. I think what it came down to though, is that as a whole, the giants just wanted it more.
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