Dr Z on pats

[SVN]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/dr_z/04/07/mailbag/1.html

"The assessment of Scott of Centerport, N.Y., coincides almost exactly with something Bill Belichick told me at the league meetings. "People are worried because we haven't come out strong in free agency yet. If you look at our history, you'll see that's what we usually do, let things subside for a while." In years past the Patriots have made some brilliant plays. Last year injuries forced them to grope a bit. Yeah, I agree with you that they seem to be trying to get younger. Old players get hurt, and the memories have left scars on the organization. Your observation about Adam Vinatieri wanting to move to a dome is also on the money. He wants to get in the Hall of Fame. He figures he has only a few good years left. He feels he needs numbers, high percentages, and the best place to get those is in a dome. Personally, I think the idea of spending the rest of his life in a community that will forever idolize him is a powerful argument for staying in Foxboro, but it's his call, his life."

 

[IcyPatriot]

Good find...I like Dr. Z, one of the few national media members who I like. He's not always right and he's pretty good..you can usually see that there is an effort in there to get info right...something local media all too often forgets.

 

[363839]

Jeez. You'd think that 3 Superbowl winning field goals would be enough for the HOF commitee.

 

[spacecrime]

Jeez. You'd think that 3 Superbowl winning field goals would be enough for the HOF commitee.

Two winning FGs, against teh Rams and Panthers. And maybe the committee thinks that the Panthers winning FG was set up by his missing two during the game?

It will take quite a bit to get a second kicker into the HOF. There are too many good football players waiting to get in to give a slot to a kicker.

Just out of curiousity, why does everyone put so much importance on the LAST score. Game winning kicks and TDs get so much PR, but they are significant only in relation to the scoring that happened in the 59 minutes before the kick.

For instance, no WMG hold on Faulk, Tebucky's TD holds, and the score is 24-3, not 17-10. A last minute FG becomes meaningless. Or AV makes to two FGs during the Panther SB. Then the last Patriot TD is the game winner.

I understand win or lose FGs, like Norwood's attempt. But teh Pat wins were not win or lose. They were win or go to OT. The pressure isn't the same.

For a pressure kick, AV's Snow Bowl kick was the greatest ever. Not only was it a darn near impossible kick, but if he missed it, the Pats lose.

I wish people wouldn't hype so much on the SB kicks, and focus on the real great kick he made: the 45 yarder in the snow.

 

[BelichickFan]

I understand win or lose FGs, like Norwood's attempt. But the Pat wins were not win or lose. They were win or go to OT. The pressure isn't the same.

Humungous difference. Game tyer in the snow bowl - amazing kick. Others were really, really good but they weren't win or lose.

 

[363839]

Two winning FGs, against teh Rams and Panthers. And maybe the committee thinks that the Panthers winning FG was set up by his missing two during the game?

It will take quite a bit to get a second kicker into the HOF. There are too many good football players waiting to get in to give a slot to a kicker.

Just out of curiousity, why does everyone put so much importance on the LAST score. Game winning kicks and TDs get so much PR, but they are significant only in relation to the scoring that happened in the 59 minutes before the kick.

For instance, no WMG hold on Faulk, Tebucky's TD holds, and the score is 24-3, not 17-10. A last minute FG becomes meaningless. Or AV makes to two FGs during the Panther SB. Then the last Patriot TD is the game winner.


I understand win or lose FGs, like Norwood's attempt. But teh Pat wins were not win or lose. They were win or go to OT. The pressure isn't the same.

For a pressure kick, AV's Snow Bowl kick was the greatest ever. Not only was it a darn near impossible kick, but if he missed it, the Pats lose.

I wish people wouldn't hype so much on the SB kicks, and focus on the real great kick he made: the 45 yarder in the snow.

I agree about the Snowbowl kick. Thats another feather in his cap to go along with the three SB game winners.
Although , I think you made good points it's still speculation.
Bottom line is they're still game winners. He's the only kicker in NFL history who can say that he has three.

 

[njpatsfan]

If the three SB winning kicks aren't enough, he never will get in. He certainly won't get another with his new team.

-R

 

[dryheat44]

I've never understood the argument that an accomplishment gets somebody into the HoF. If Adam has a long career and finishes as one of the top 10 scorers of all time, he has a chance. To enshrine him based on 3 kicks is silly. Joe Carter won a World Series game with a Home Run. So did Kirk Gibson. So did Jack Clark. I'm sure somebody like Luis Sojo won a WS for the Yankees. For hockey fans, Brian Boucher set a record with something like six shutouts in a row, and hasn't won a game since. Robert Horry has a long history of making clutch baskets. There's a reason these people aren't getting to their respective HoFs despite amazing accomplishments.

Adam has the easiest job. He just kicks the ball. The offense has to do the hard work by getting in position for his to attempt the kicks. If Adam made clutch kicks for the Saints all these years, we wouldn't even be discussing this. If he goes, the Ken Walter should go to, for perfect holds on all those clutch kicks. He's the most clutch holder in NFL history. And Lonie Paxton too. Nobody could snap like him in the clutch.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Good find...I like Dr. Z, one of the few national media members who I like. He's not always right and he's pretty good..you can usually see that there is an effort in there to get info right...something local media all too often forgets.

I guess we have a cultural difference here. I think "Dr Z." is insufferable; he is (as we say in the UK) totally "up himself" -- his title not excepted.

It's characteristically pretentious of him to use his column to pontificate about wine (a subject on which his comment here shows him to be ignorant, by the way). But the worst for me is the self-aggrandizing name-dropping ("as Bill Belichick said to me ...") Perhaps BB cut the breakfast with Ron Borges and the rest of the media just so that he could have the pleasure of hanging out with Mr Zimmerman. (And, if so, how typical of Mr Zimmerman to let everyone else know about it.) And then again, perhaps not.

What's clear is that when he doesn't have coaches kissing his ego (as when the Patriots refused to tell him all their plans at training camp a couple of seasons ago) he becomes a petulant little snit.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I guess we have a cultural difference here. I think "Dr Z." is insufferable; he is (as we say in the UK) totally "up himself" -- his title not excepted.

It's characteristically pretentious of him to use his column to pontificate about wine (a subject on which his comment here shows him to be ignorant, by the way). But the worst for me is the self-aggrandizing name-dropping ("as Bill Belichick said to me ...") Perhaps BB cut the breakfast with Ron Borges and the rest of the media just so that he could have the pleasure of hanging out with Mr Zimmerman. (And, if so, how typical of Mr Zimmerman to let everyone else know about it.) And then again, perhaps not.

What's clear is that when he doesn't have coaches kissing his ego (as when the Patriots refused to tell him all their plans at training camp a couple of seasons ago) he becomes a petulant little snit.

Can we get an AMEN! (And I only like box_o_wine, not that snooty stuff zzzzzzzz dribbles.)

 

[AzPatsFan]

I've never understood the argument that an accomplishment gets somebody into the HoF. If Adam has a long career and finishes as one of the top 10 scorers of all time, he has a chance. To enshrine him based on 3 kicks is silly. Joe Carter won a World Series game with a Home Run. So did Kirk Gibson. So did Jack Clark. I'm sure somebody like Luis Sojo won a WS for the Yankees. For hockey fans, Brian Boucher set a record with something like six shutouts in a row, and hasn't won a game since. Robert Horry has a long history of making clutch baskets. There's a reason these people aren't getting to their respective HoFs despite amazing accomplishments.

Adam has the easiest job. He just kicks the ball. The offense has to do the hard work by getting in position for his to attempt the kicks. If Adam made clutch kicks for the Saints all these years, we wouldn't even be discussing this. If he goes, the Ken Walter should go to, for perfect holds on all those clutch kicks. He's the most clutch holder in NFL history. And Lonie Paxton too. Nobody could snap like him in the clutch.

But one memorable play, or one memorable game or one memorable quote is enough. Joe Willie Namath got into the HoF with a completion percentage of 50.5% and with a record of throwing more INTs than TDs. But his brag... "We'll win, I guarantee it" was the quote, and the Jets did upset the overated Coltsto win a Superbowl for the AFC/AFL.

 

[Burgess]

I guess we have a cultural difference here. I think "Dr Z." is insufferable; he is (as we say in the UK) totally "up himself" -- his title not excepted.

I agree. I briefly read his articles before realizing that they were causing me stress. I friggin hate his references to 'the flaming redhead'. Gah!

 

[dryheat44]

But one memorable play, or one memorable game or one memorable quote is enough. Joe Willie Namath got into the HoF with a completion percentage of 50.5% and with a record of throwing more INTs than TDs. But his brag... "We'll win, I guarantee it" was the quote, and the Jets did upset the overated Coltsto win a Superbowl for the AFC/AFL.

True...it's not unprecendented. Co-incidentally, I was reading an article this morning about Paul Henderson. He was a hockey player who had a mediocre pro career, but scored the winning goal in the "Summit Series", an eight-game exhibition between Canadian all-stars and the Soviet National Team. There's been a big push to get him into the Hockey Hall of Fame because he scored the winning goal in an exhibition series.

I don't know how Vinatieri could make it in ahead of guys like Morten and Gary Anderson, who were all-pro kickers for about fifteen consecutive years. When all is said and done, he might even be behind Elam among current players.

It would take the HOF committee, who so far has only elected one kicker in the history of Pro football to the Hall, to suddenly give a lot more weight to the K position.

I'd like to see Adam make the Hall, but I think it's very unlikely. Besides Brady, Belichick, and Seymour (pending another 7-10 years at his current level), I don't see anybody from the current Patriot teams making the Hall. Now if they start electing teams.....