Dr. Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

[Vern]

Don't forget that while we fret about guys slipping through waivers, we'll be looking at other teams' waiver wire ourselves.

I suspect any OL worth anything might be signed to replace guys like Britt.

Also, along those lines, I could see a scenario where Cassel is cut and we end up with

QB: Brady, (some other team's cut vet), O'Connell. (Gutz to PS)

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

Does anyone get the feeling that Slater not returning any for TD's in the preseason has made half the forum change their mind that's he's a slick addition? Fickle. He was one ankle snag away from a big break like... twice.

Agree. I've read comments comparing his return skills roughly to Hobbs and comparing his gunner skills roughly to Aiken/Ventrone/etc. The point being that you can cut Slater and fill his roles with folks already on the roster. One injury to Hobbs on a return or Meriweather covering a kick and the same folks will be blaming the demise of the secondary on the decision to cut Slater.

There are 2 distinct camps on this board...potential vs. production. The "potentials" fall in love with size/speed and think anyone is better than what the Pats currently have at the back end of the roster. The "productions" can't see anyone being successful with the Pats without having a history of being successful.

Like many others, I feel that reality falls squarely in between those 2 camps. There are times when you keep potential even if that decision may hurt you in the short term (cut Hobson, keep Guyton). There are also times when you keep declining veterans because of experience and intangibles like locker room leadership (keep Izzo, risk Redd on waivers).

 

[JSn]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

Agree. I've read comments comparing his return skills roughly to Hobbs and comparing his gunner skills roughly to Aiken/Ventrone/etc. The point being that you can cut Slater and fill his roles with folks already on the roster. One injury to Hobbs on a return or Meriweather covering a kick and the same folks will be blaming the demise of the secondary on the decision to cut Slater.

There are 2 distinct camps on this board...potential vs. production. The "potentials" fall in love with size/speed and think anyone is better than what the Pats currently have at the back end of the roster. The "productions" can't see anyone being successful with the Pats without having a history of being successful.

Like many others, I feel that reality falls squarely in between those 2 camps. There are times when you keep potential even if that decision may hurt you in the short term (cut Hobson, keep Guyton). There are also times when you keep declining veterans because of experience and intangibles like locker room leadership (keep Izzo, risk Redd on waivers).

So where do you stand on Slater? I'll be honest, he's a guy I'd be willing to take a risk on. The Jets are clearly playing the "this year or bust" game and you can bet they'll axe some (more) quality players. I think Pat's are smarter. We have cap space, top players playing for less to stay here long term and a good eye for making killers out of UDFA's.

CAN Slater fill two positions and maybe three in hard times? Yes. Is he young enough to develop into a team guy? Yes.

I'd say keep him, personally, and go with two TE's.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

So where do you stand on Slater?

I have Slater making the team and being a gameday active at KR and gunner. You generally can translate special teams play in college to the NFL. I don't believe his special teams play in the preseason is affecting the Pats evaluation of him...positively or negatively. He effectively takes the roles Andrews had last year, except he should be the primary kick returner and also serve as an emergency WR.

 

[BradyManny]

I suspect any OL worth anything might be signed to replace guys like Britt.

I think Britt is your primary Light backup at LT and that's OK. With O'Cal not practicing due to injury, he's even more important.

Britt's got decent potential. First, I thought he played well the first two weeks of the preseason. But secondly, this is a guy who by many accounts would've gone in rounds 2-3 if he'd been healthier his final collegiate season.

 

[BPF]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

I don't get the fascination for Alexander. If my grandma played TE Alexander would tackle her after a 15yd reception.

Crable, Guyton, Redd, Tank Willams, Lynch (plus an improving Woods)

To me that's writing on the blackboard for Mr Alexander

Alexander has been a core ST player this preseason like Izzo so I would be very surprised if he were cut. I think the Pats will end up going with 10 LB's this season: Vrable, Woods, Thomas, Crable, Mayo, Bruschi, Guyton, Redd, Alexander and Izzo. *If Redd is waived I have a feeling the Cowboys will claim him with all their injury woes at OLB*

 

[BPF]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

Agreed, but I dont know your grandma.

Guyton, Redd, Crable, Mayo all have out played Alexander this preseason. Him and Hobson are fighting for a roster spot.

Hobson hasn't played all thay much on D and not on any of the ST 1st groups so I think Alexander has definitely beat out Hobson.

 

[BPF]

Don't forget that while we fret about guys slipping through waivers, we'll be looking at other teams' waiver wire ourselves.

I suspect any OL worth anything might be signed to replace guys like Britt.

Also, along those lines, I could see a scenario where Cassel is cut and we end up with

QB: Brady, (some other team's cut vet), O'Connell. (Gutz to PS)

Britt is a lock, he will not be replaced.

 

[BPF]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

So where do you stand on Slater? I'll be honest, he's a guy I'd be willing to take a risk on. The Jets are clearly playing the "this year or bust" game and you can bet they'll axe some (more) quality players. I think Pat's are smarter. We have cap space, top players playing for less to stay here long term and a good eye for making killers out of UDFA's.

CAN Slater fill two positions and maybe three in hard times? Yes. Is he young enough to develop into a team guy? Yes.

I'd say keep him, personally, and go with two TE's.

Slater has been on all four 1st unit punt/kickoff groups so there is a good chance he will make it.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

Alexander has been a core ST player this preseason like Izzo so I would be very surprised if he were cut. I think the Pats will end up going with 10 LB's this season: Vrable, Woods, Thomas, Crable, Mayo, Bruschi, Guyton, Redd, Alexander and Izzo. *If Redd is waived I have a feeling the Cowboys will claim him with all their injury woes at OLB*

I don't object to going with 10 LB's. But, where would you cut the player to reach the 10?

 

[BPF]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

I don't object to going with 10 LB's. But, where would you cut the player to reach the 10?

As of this moment I would go with this 53:

Offense (25)
QB's - (3) Brady, Gutierrez and O'Connell.
RB's- (5) Maroney, Jordan, Morris, Faulk and Evans.
WR's -(6) Moss, Welker, Gaffney, Jackson, Washington and Aiken.
TE's - (2) Watson and Thomas.
OL - (9) Light, Britt, Mankins, Hochstein, Koppen, Yates, (Welbourn or Flynn not sure here yet. Depends on if Hoch is healthy and the health of the OT’s, O’Callaghan specifically), Kaczur and O'Callaghan. *Neal and Ross are PUP'd. * *Connolly, Wendell and Sene to PS.*

Defense (25)
DL - (6) Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Smith, Green and Wright. *S.Thomas to PS* -This of course means LeKevin needs to get healthy because right now he is not practicing*
LB's - (10) Vrabel, Woods, Mayo, Bruschi, Thomas, Crable, Guyton, Redd, Alexander and Izzo.
CB's - (4) Bryant, Wilhite, Hobbs, Wheatley
S’s – (5) Spann, Harrison, Lynch, J.Sanders and Meriweather.

ST's (3)
PK - Gostkowski
P - Hanson
LS - Paxton

It’s a tough choice between Redd, Guyton and Slater. Maybe the Pats end up keeping one of either Guyton or Redd and hold on to Slater since he has been on all ST groups with the 1’s and BB has him playing DB to add even more value. It’s also tough to keep both Aiken and Izzo since they fill the same role on ST. Maybe Aiken goes to IR. I also might be inclined to go with Webster or L.Sanders over Spann as well. Although Spann’s has looked good in practice I don’t see it translating to the games.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

The depth at corner is extremely thin. You keep Redd and Spann instead of Webster and Lewis Sanders.

As of this moment I would go with this 53:

Offense (25)
QB's - (3) Brady, Gutierrez and O'Connell.
RB's- (5) Maroney, Jordan, Morris, Faulk and Evans.
WR's -(6) Moss, Welker, Gaffney, Jackson, Washington and Aiken.
TE's - (2) Watson and Thomas.
OL - (9) Light, Britt, Mankins, Hochstein, Koppen, Yates, (Welbourn or Flynn not sure here yet. Depends on if Hoch is healthy and the health of the OT’s, O’Callaghan specifically), Kaczur and O'Callaghan. *Neal and Ross are PUP'd. * *Connolly, Wendell and Sene to PS.*

Defense (25)
DL - (6) Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Smith, Green and Wright. *S.Thomas to PS* -This of course means LeKevin needs to get healthy because right now he is not practicing*
LB's - (10) Vrabel, Woods, Mayo, Bruschi, Thomas, Crable, Guyton, Redd, Alexander and Izzo.
CB's - (4) Bryant, Wilhite, Hobbs, Wheatley
S’s – (5) Spann, Harrison, Lynch, J.Sanders and Meriweather.

ST's (3)
PK - Gostkowski
P - Hanson
LS - Paxton

It’s a tough choice between Redd, Guyton and Slater. Maybe the Pats end up keeping one of either Guyton or Redd and hold on to Slater since he has been on all ST groups with the 1’s and BB has him playing DB to add even more value. It’s also tough to keep both Aiken and Izzo since they fill the same role on ST. Maybe Aiken goes to IR. I also might be inclined to go with Webster or L.Sanders over Spann as well. Although Spann’s has looked good in practice I don’t see it translating to the games.

 

[BPF]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

The depth at corner is extremely thin. You keep Redd and Spann instead of Webster and Lewis Sanders.

If needed I'm sure we can sign one of those guys later on if injuries occur. Also I did say that I might be inclined to keep one of those guys over Spann. In any case, last yr the Pats kept 3 pure CB's: Samuel, Hobbs and Gay with S's Wilson and Meriweather being able to play there as well if needed which is just like this year with Spann and Meriweather being able to play there if necessary. The Pats only kept 4 in 2006 as well with Samuel, Hobbs, Gay and Chad Scott with Andrews listed as a CB but being strictly a ST's guy but same thing as this yr and 2007 they had flexibility with S's Wilson and A. Hawkins being able to play there if necessary. In my opinion Redd and Guyton will get snapped up by other teams because of upside, youth and athletic ability vs Webster and L.Sanders who have been career journeymen.

 

[ALP]

Re: Dr.Nut's 53 man roster 8/24/08

OK...but next year's "Guytons and Redds" won't be able to contribute right away either, so you'll have to cut them, too, right?

At some point you have to take the long view. If you want a young, athletic, inexpensive 2d- or 3rd- or 4th-year LB developing on your roster, you have to start by taking a chance and making room for an unready rookie. Not blindly, of course. But IF you think Guyton is likely to be more valuable in 2009-11 than Alexander will be for his final season of '08, IMO that's too big a sacrifice to the "contribute right now" principle.

very nicely said...

 

[PonyExpress]

I haven't worked out my 53, but just some player observations...

My gut tells me BB will cut Chad Jackson. I don't agree with it. But I think Jackson has pissed off some vets and they don't want him around anymore.

I like Pierre Woods. I don't believe he will be cut. But his inability to hold the edge after 2+ years is disconcerting. He should be strong and smart enough to diagnose and stand his ground. He has been playing ROLB the last 2 weeks, instead of LOLB as he did week 1. Maybe the switch has him discombobulated or something. Or maybe TB and Philly start NFL quality talent.

A little voice in my head whispers we may regret cutting Vince Redd. If his character issues don't arise again, he has more physical ability than Woods.

Ray Ventrone is a mascot player, like a Klecko. Coaches love him. But I'd rather keep someone else.

We should keep Guyton. If that means cutting Alexander or Izzo, then so be it. The clock is ticking on everyone.

Wesley Britt cannot play LT in the NFL. Or RT.

I don't think CJ Jones will make the team. That said, he has a knack for getting open. I like Cj Jones, for all his goofs and weird drops. He can get open, and IMO his hands are better than his gaffes indicate. And he's quick. IMO he will find a WR role in the NFL somewhere, if not here.

The best thing I saw in the Philly game was Dave Thomas healthy and on the field. His presence will change the dynamic of the whole offense.

Cassel had his shot and blew it. He should not make this roster. The Offense rejected him the way a polar bear mama sometimes rejects a cub.

I like Slater and want him to develop. But he is not an explosive return man. He looks to be a very good safety prospect and gunner. He should make it to the practice squad.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Good stuff. Right in the ballpark. All you have to do is say things like "in our discussions", and "after talking it over with Scott", and you could be NE INSIDER.

 

[bradmahn]

It's time for Dr. Nut (as much as a Dr as Dr Z) projected 53 man roster and I think some will not be happy with this.

3-ST's Paxton, Hanson Ghost

Offense

OL (9) Light , Mankins (just made it), Koppen, Flynn, Kaczur, Welborne Britt,Horst, O'Callaghan (Ross and Neal on PUP)

TE's (2) Thomas Watson - others are JAG's adn we can pick one up if needed at anytime.

RB's (5) Maroney, Faulk, Morris, Jordon, Evans

WR (6) Moss ( on the bubble), Welker, Gaffney, Jackson, Washigton, Aikens

QB's (3) Brady Gut, O'Connnel - Happy trails Matt Cassel.

Total Offense 25
Now we Move to the defense;

DL (6) Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Wright, Green, Smith

ILB (4) Tedy B, Mayo, Guyton,Seau (Hobson/Izzo stays if Jr. does not come back) It's sad to cut Izzo but I'm heartless.
OLB (5) Varbel, Crable, Woods, AD, Redd

S (4) Rodney, Lynch, Merriweather, Sanders (Maybe Spann, but not right now)

CB (6) Hobbs, Bryant, Wheatley, Wilhite, L.Sanders (also can play safety)Webster

Total Defense 25

That is the 2008 edition of your NE Patriots. What do you think?

I'm sure most of what I'm about to say has already been said, but I don't feel like reading all of these posts...

On offense the only thing I'd add is Ventrone, probably ahead of Aiken. Ventrone has shown more all camp long, I don't think you cut him for someone who is still a question mark at this point.

On defense, I think Alexander knocks Redd off the roster and probably to the practice squad. Alexander is a core special teamer already and emergency depth at ILB where it's a little more than the outside. I'm not including Seau on the roster until he actually signs a contract.

Slater has shown speed out of a gunner that I don't remember seeing from someone on the Patriots within the last several years and flashed quickness returning kicks both in games and from all accounts, practice as well. Fifth round rookies don't have to show much to warrant a spot over vets who don't get on the field because of injury. He gets a spot.

Spann has earned time as one of the first string safeties in practice and some game situations and has held his own there. You have Lewis Sanders or Webster beating him out, but I haven't seen (or read) nearly as much out of them as I have from Spann, who has seen action at both corner and safety in his career.

My memory may be escaping me, but has Lewis Sanders even seen time at safety in training camp? I know he was working at safety during minicamps but that's the last I've heard anything reported about him working at the position.

If you've been following my math, that leaves fifty-two players on the roster or one spot for whoever's shown the most from what I think is a list consisting of Redd, Izzo, Aiken, Webster, L. Sanders, Santonio Thomas, Spach, or maybe even C.J. Jones. At this point you're looking for emergency depth and special teams play, with hopes of having the possibility to develop into something useful. Whittling it down even more, I see it being a toss up between Aiken, Izzo and Redd, with Redd being a dark horse candidate.

 

[alvinnf]

What's up with all the Ventone love , I saw Rudy it was OK.

 

[bradmahn]

What's up with all the Ventone love , I saw Rudy it was OK.

Consult one of the three Ventrone threads already on the board and I'm sure you could find an answer.

 

[alvinnf]

Consult one of the three Ventrone threads already on the board and I'm sure you could find an answer.

I use my eyes to formulate my opinions, you created an offensive spot for a player whom came to us as a Safety. You easily dismiss a player like Aiken, whom is of the same stature as a special teamer than Izzo was when he came to us four or so years ago.