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Dr Kavorkian (man before his time)

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, May 24, 2009.

  1. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ARE WE FINALLY COMING TO OUR SENSES

    Watching somebody you love slowly die in agony will stay in your mind forever, at last society is coming to it's senses, we will shoot a horse because it has a broken leg but we will sit beside a human beings bed for weeks watching them beg for death because of the pain and do nothing and all the while we knew they were going to die anyway.

    News Today:
    With family members, her physician and her dog at her side, Fleming took a deadly dose of prescription barbiturates and died Thursday night at her home in Sequim, Wash.
    My Way News - Wash. state woman 1st death under new suicide law
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2009
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I believe that if I have a terminal illness and am approaching death that I have a choice to end my life, always tell my wife if there gets to be a point where I have to go to a nursing home and have to pee through a tube and have my ass wiped by strangers.. slip me something good and I will save everyone a lot of stress and agony.
     
  3. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    The moral argument is compelling. But it's not an issue to run headlong into. When you are terminally ill, you generally have ample access to significant medications that would end life if it comes to that. There have been MILLIONS of "wink and a nod" assisted deaths the world over in the past decades. Most doctors, knowing that you are facing the "end of life" do not hesitate, and are not in the practice of withholding the amounts of medications needed to end your suffering. Plus there are ropes, guns, plastic bags, big buildings, ect.... that people have at their disposal to end their suffering.

    As evidenced by the thousands that kill themselves annually (for good or bad reasons), there is ample opportunity for INDIVIDUALS to choose, and then follow this path, should they personally decide this course.

    My only squeamishness to this whole thing is "inserting the institution" into the process. To me there is a SIGNIFICANT LEAP from going to the doctor and saying "Gee Doc, I'm in a lotta pain here, can you give me something stronger" {wink, wink} or "Hey Doc, I wanna be careful here and not take too many of these, just how many of these little blue pills would put me under for good", to saying "I want to die, please help me". One is a solitary personal choice, the other brings in outside elements.

    I know a lot of you would pooh pooh this fear, but there are certain "big bridge" points that lead down certain paths and I think going from the old "wink and a nod" policy to official "institution" sanctioned assisted suicide, is just one such "big bridge". Once the institution gets involved, the capacity for abuse and misuse, or escalation exist.

    Next thing you know, the institution starts making the determinations of just what constitutes. "life unworthy of life". That phrase sounds familiar don't it. It should, it was the fundamental justification of the T 4 program in Nazi Germany, which ultimately led to the Holocaust.

    Most of you are really quick to point out just how "irresponsible" our government and this country is. If you feel that way, then just ask yourself; If our country is really that screwed up, do you really think that it could/should become involved in the issue of life/death?

    Again, it's a sympathetic issue and NOONE wants to see people suffer (particularly ones we love), but just take a moment to think about the big bridges.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2009
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree completely, once it becomes part of policy then others get involved.. it is an intensely personal decision.. and it plays into the whole "living will" issue which is widely accepted and seldom challenged..

    I hope this debate never reaches the Senate or House floor, or the chambers of any state gov't... it is an intensely personal decision not taken lightly, but sometimes has to be.
     
  5. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Again, it's not as simple as Grandma is sick and in pain, and that hurts her (and ultimately us), so lets help her out. This is an intensely PERSONAL consideration.

    Once you choose to involve the institution, it leaves the "PERSONAL consideration" realm and enters SOCIETAL consideration territory. It should be viewed differently.

    It's easy to just dismiss the "assisted suicide leads to the Holocaust" argument because there is such a WIDE span between the two. However, if this is a topic that is of interest, I'd urge you to read some of the passages of Die Freigabe der Vernichtung Lebensunwerten Lebens, (Allowing the Destruction of Life Unworthy of Life) by Karl Binding and Alfred Hoche. many of the fundamental arguments used today are addressed in the book.

    It's also the text that ultimately lead to the Nazi Euthanasia policies that were ultimately extended from just ill persons to include those that caused "social turmoil" in society (like the jews, roma, etc......).

    Not saying it would EVER follow that course again, but with each "big bridge" you cross, the likelihood that it would gets greater.
     

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