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Double Standard regarding Fan Evaluation of Players

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DaBruinz, Jan 22, 2006.

  1. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Here is a situation that I have seen more and more regarding a couple of players in particular. Both has sub-standard years for the Patriots. Significantly more was expected of them.

    Player A: Age to start 2006 season 31
    1) Unproductive
    2) Played Injured
    3) Said to be in decline

    Player B: Age to start 2006 season 32
    1) Unproductive
    2) Played Injured
    3) Said to be in decline

    Do you know what the difference between the two players is? The 1st one is Corey Dillon and the other is Duane Starks.

    Fans seem to be so willing to give Dillon a pass and chalk this season up to his being injured and the carousel on the O-line. Yet, there are only a few people who are willing to do the same for Duane Starks.

    Starks, like Dillon, played INJURED. Starks' shoulder was a mess according to his doctor (and yes, an injured shoulder can seriously affect your ability to run properly). And there was just as much of a carousel in the secondary as there was on the O-line. So, why is that? Why are people so willing to chalk up Dillon's lack of production to his injury and such, yet not willing to give Starks the same consideration? Sounds like a great hypocracy to me.

    Box and others who are given so much credit for their break down of plays have spoken out as to how WELL Starks actually played given the circumstances. Yet, I find its generally ignored except by the most ardent fan.

    This really is mind-boggling to me.
     
  2. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    re:

    I think the reaction has been stronger for Starks because when a cornerback doesn't play well, he usually gives up a huge play or a touchdown. When a running back doesn't play well, it's usually the difference of a yard or two on a run. Also, we knew that the O-Line was decimated, which helped explain Dillon's production. I know we also lost Rodney, but I think people under-estimated the effect of not having Rodney in the backfield.

    .
     
  3. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Because even though it was frustrating to see Corey turn backwards before hitting the hole, we were at least sometimes able to overcome his lack of production (and we had a year with him when he was great).

    By contrast, there was no making up for those long pass plays where Starks got burned bad, for all to see, and we don't have any loyalty to him because we don't know him previously to be a great player for us.

    Hopefully they'll both get better and show us something in training camp. Maybe because I feel I know him better, I think Corey is more likely to show up than Starks (of course this is ridiculous, because I don't know either of them, but there you have it).
     
  4. Alk

    Alk In the Starting Line-Up

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    I personally think they are both probably just about done, but I would like to see them here next season and get a chance to prove me wrong. That being said, I would like us to draft a RB to take Dillon's place if not next season, then the season after. Same goes for Starks.
     
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Two differences for me :

    1) We've seen Dillon be productive for us and Starks has had numerous injuries before joining us that I'm now not sure if he can be the same player.

    2) Cutting Starks saves us $3.5M in cap room, cutting Dillon costs us cap room. If we could cut Dillon and save $3.5M I might join the "draft a RB #1" crowd.
     
  6. Alk

    Alk In the Starting Line-Up

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    Whether Dillon is here or not, we need to draft a RB in the first because lets face it, Dillon has one more year left in him at best. I would rather have someone in place now than to get caught with our pants around our ankles if he gets injured in week 3 again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2006
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Depite how Faulk ended the season, and Pass' hamstring issues, I have no interest in going into next year with Dillon, Faulk, Pass and a #1 pick. A lower pick, maybe.
     
  8. Crazy Patriot Guy

    Crazy Patriot Guy Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #11 Jersey

    It's not a fair comparison.

    Corey Dillon was coming off of the best season of his career. Duane Starks was coming off sub-par years. (though to be fair injuries were the cause of some of that)

    When a guy has 1635 yards, averages 4.7 ypc and and has 13 total TDs, it's hard to look at him a year later and say "Well, he just sucks now."

    Starks could come back next year, stay healthy and be very productive. However, since he's now missed 32 games in the last four years, obviously some people don't want to have to count on him.

    That being said, even if Dillon is getting somewhat of a pass for this season, I haven't seen many people that don't think we need a young RB through the draft or free agency.
     
  9. Alk

    Alk In the Starting Line-Up

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    Well then, as much as I like Pass, it's time to tell him goodbye. We need some youth that is capable of starting next season in the event that Dillon is injured, ineffective or both.
     
  10. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I agree with Huskeralk here...we need to get a RB in the draft and groom him. We do not want to be scrambling around last minute for a back.

    Also, the thing with Pass is he plays incredible in the Pre season games (so they keep him) and then nothing during the regular season.
     
  11. goldenaleus

    goldenaleus Practice Squad Player

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    #12 Jersey

    How long would we want to groom a RB?
     
  12. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is this true, Box?

    I'm not a breakdown maven and I bow to others in their grasp of the subtleties of the game, but it was just flat out OBVIOUS to me that Starks was LOST on a lot of plays.

    If you can't run or jump that's one thing; if you have no idea where you're supposed to be running to that's another. The fact that Ellis Hobbs picked up the idea of the defense far quicker than an expensive free agent vet speaks volumes to me.

    P.S. I may be wrong, but I don't think I'm hypocritical.
     
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I never want to see the words "groom a RB" together with relation to the Patriots. RB don't need it. OK, they need to learn to blitz pickups and pass routes. Training camp is plenty of time for that if they're smart. Otherwise, take the ball, hit the hole. We aren't talking about an ILB having to make the defensive calls. I want to draft a JITRB - Just in Time Running Back. When we need him, draft him.
     
  14. goldenaleus

    goldenaleus Practice Squad Player

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    #12 Jersey

    If we are talking a year or two...why not trade for Duckett and sign him to a 5 year deal with the knowledge of him having to share duties with Dillon for a year or two?
     
  15. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mike,

    I can try to write up a lengthy dissertation about why I feel Starks played his heart out for the team and bought time for Mangini to develop Hobbs. If you have the time to look up Starks in the breakdowns using the 'find' function, you will find criticism and praise.

    My feeling, based on trying to break down the tape and understand what was happening within the game, give a healthy Duane Starks another shot, he may not be a number one CB anymore, but he can be a valuable role player and he was never as bad as his detractors believed.
     
  16. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Depends on the cap number. Certainly not at the $5.1M he costs right now compared to $1.5M of dead money if we cut him.
     
  17. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, don't do that. I realize that you may have time on your hands, but I think that it would be much better spent writing witty posts to flirt with Bill's Girl and PatsNut. :)

    But could you, please, post the link? (Come to think of it, why isn't it on a sticky?)

    I have all the games on DVD so I can take the opportunity of the off-season to review one or two plays in a bit more detail -- better than having to eat my heart out thinking about whether I'm more jealous of the Steelers or the Seahawks.
     
  18. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First, let me say that my "flirting" with PatsNutme is part of my matador training in my role as a retired thrillseeker and as such has everything to do with avoiding getting gored by him, not that there's anything right with that! My relationship with Bill's Girl is purely avuncular, I've never even read Lolita! (My comic books have better pictures, harrumph!)

    http://www.targetsoft.com/patriots/

    Happy searching.
     
  19. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Money is a seperate factor, my point is based on what I understood watching tape. (Admittedly very little.) :p
     
  20. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I guess groom was a poor choice of words...what i meant was someone who did not have to perform full time for another year...like Benson in Chicago.
     

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