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DookFish camp observations

Discussion in 'Patriots 2008 Training Camp Reports and Photos' started by DookFish, Jul 29, 2008.

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  1. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Another great post, thanks DookFish! (Handy tip to readers: narrow your browser window and you hardly miss the absent paragraphs.)

    To me, one of the biggest surprises of the draft was the lack of an NT pickup. I really thought they'd go for Red Bryant in particular.
     
  2. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Re: Return of the DookFish

    iwonderwhyyoutypedthisyoualreadyknowwhatyouthinkandifyouwanttoinformotherswhymakeithardtoreadwhensimplyhittingtheparagraphreturnwhenyouchangethoughtsoreveryfewlinesorsoImeanwhybothertypingallthisstuffwhenitisimpossibletoreadasisobviouslyyouareinterestedinbeingreadoryouwouldn’thavegonethroughtheworkofpostingallthisi’dbeinterestedinyourreasonsfornotmakingthepostreadableitisespeciallyhumorousthatyoutitledthispiecetheartofseparationandthenprovidednoseparation
     
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  3. PatsWickedPissah

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    Re: Return of the DookFish

    Hilarious!
     
  4. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress In the Starting Line-Up

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    Re: Return of the DookFish

    The lack of paragraphs is a strategy employed by the great Dookfish to deter non diehards from reading his posts.

    In this fashion he keeps his great insight outside of the mainstream, restricted to patriot fanatics. More brilliance from the Dookfish.
     
  5. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Return of the DookFish

    dangicantbelievethatididntpickuponthatirony

    Perhaps the DookFish was sent to all of us who wish that the media would stop worrying about style and flash and just talk about football, as a reminder to beware of what you wish for. :) (BTW, DookFish, keep 'em coming!)
     
  6. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    Love the observations. Lots of detail that you don't get anywhere else. The conclusions...not so much. Too many absolutes and "God-given talent" analysis.

    Gaining separation is critical and as you mention, Maroney and CJack don't seem to have this down. This skill isn't instinctual or God-given. It is learned through hard work and repetition. Gaffney has been very productive, but he has really had to work to get to this point.

    Maroney has never been asked to apply this skill. He only runs the screen/swing routes that you mention...where the real skill isn't getting open but securing the ball and navigating in space (where he is tremendous IMO). I would love to see him acquire these skills over time so he can stay on the field more as Faulk starts to lose a step. Not worried at this point. Don't see how Jordan applies in this situation since Faulk is the player most closely related to the role/responsibility you mention, not Maroney.

    CJack is a different story. His job description most definitely requires him to gain separation. If he isn't doing it, it isn't because he is unable. It means he isn't applying the coaching he is receiving when he gets the chance on the field. Your report isn't encouraging but I would like to see him in a game situation before passing judgement. If he doesn't get on the field with the 1's, it is likely the coaches are seeing the same things that you are. If he gets on the field and isn't seeing the ball, it probably means that he isn't giving Brady a target he feels comfortable throwing to. No excuses for that at this point and unfortunately that may signal the beginning of the end for his time as a Patriot.

    I really like your points about the finer aspects of receiving that generally lead to success. I still have high hopes that Maroney will play a larger part in the passing game (though likely still on screens and swing passes) and that CJack will put in the work to learn and apply these details like Gaffney and Welker have done so well. I think it is premature to say that Maroney can never run routes downfield or that CJack will fail in the NFL, especially since neither of them has seen their 24th birthday yet.
     
  7. Box_O_Rocks

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    Re: Return of the DookFish

    Dook,

    Outside of the fact that I'm wheezing and out of breath from reading your Art of Separation compilation, my only complaint would be lack of grades on the rest of the RBs and WRs - thank you for grading the four participating TEs.

    Separation Grades - Could you please fill in the question marks from your observations?
    RB/FB
    Jordan - pass
    Maroney - fail
    Faulk - pass
    Morris - ?
    Evans - ?
    Eckel - ?
    Green-Ellis - ?

    TE
    Watson - pass
    Thomas - inc.
    Pollard - pass
    Spach - fail
    Stupar - fail

    WR
    Moss - pass
    Welker - pass (I'd say it's safe to make that assumption :D )
    Gaffney - pass
    Jackson - fail
    Washington - ?
    Aiken - ?
    Jones - ?
    Dunlap - ?
    Slater - ?
    Ventrone - ?
     
  8. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Great stuff in this thread.

    Much is being made of the lack of paragraphs, but I say that's hogwarsh. It's a good read, even if it does make your eyes go oyoyoyoyoyo.
     
  9. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Re: Return of the DookFish


    which practice did you watch because i was at last thiursday's morning practice and noticed CJ couldn't separate even in the end zone with one on one coverage. he doesn't even use his size to shield db's.
     
  10. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    everybody says CJ doesn't take the advice of the coaching staff. I think it comes down to he doesn't know to run routes PRECISELY. He probably got by in college with his athleticism. And I honestly feel he probably has high end speed versus Welker type which no one can argue, but I think it's more track speed and being precise in his footwork to deceive the DB goes with that.

    Thursday is a big day for CJ. I'm rooting for him, but it's not looking good.

    I was at last Thursd. morning practice and CJ was confused on where to lineup at times also.
     
  11. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #37 Jersey

    I'm hoping to see the DookFish's observations on our two top TEs. Now that Thomas is back and taking snaps, how does he compare to Watson and to the bigger WRs in quickness, in head and body fakes, in setting up DBs and LBs to use their momentum against them?

    Obviously, Thomas can catch and has the body control to keep his feet inbounds while reaching, but how is he at getting that all important separation that we love to discuss.

    Thanks, Dook and all the other eagle eyes out there.

    I might be at TC myself tomorrow. I'll see if I can coax the hot dog vendor to separate from the crowd. That will sufficiently tax my skills.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  12. jmt57

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    Re: Return of the DookFish

    Fixed it for spacecrime and others that are looking for more separation.
     
  13. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Return of the DookFish


    How great !

    Dookfish thereby becomes the first poster on this board
    whose typography is so bad, while his analysis is so good ...
    that he earns his own dedicated editor.
     
  14. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Re: Return of the DookFish

    Not so. Back in '05, Box_O_Rocks and Pats1 would break down games and I would run it through a custom Word macro and edit the results for posting here. OTOH, their typography wasn't the issue. Just a lot of complicated stuff.
     
  15. PatsWickedPissah

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    Re: Return of the DookFish

    Best. Stuff. Evah!
     
  16. cstjohn17

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    Re: Return of the DookFish

    Initially I didn't really give Pollard a chance to make the team but reviews like this may change my mind. Watson and Thomas are great at running down the seams for 20 yards at a time but just as valuable or even more valuable is the ability for a TE to sit in a spot 5-7 yards downfield and give the QB an outlet

    Watching Whitten, this is the part of his game I really respect, he will move into a small part of a zone and create space. Almost like a 2nd slot receiver. If Pollard can do this effectively he could be become an important weapon, similar to the knack Faulk has for big 3rd down plays. A smart savy TE that understands the passing game will have a lot of open spots in the middle of the field.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  17. Box_O_Rocks

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    Re: Return of the DookFish

    Like Charlie Chaplain, silent film pioneer, paving the way for a new generation in talkies - Dookfish is the new John Wayne, Beanfish must be the new Gabby Hayes. :cool:
     
  18. PatsDeb

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    Dookfish you're killing us, man! Where are you? I get sucked in by your in-depth analysis since I can't attend camp myself (and cannot possibly note all the things you do) and you say you are coming back and then.... nothing!

    Oh the humanity! Don't let the old ladies with their spacing complaints deter you! Please come back!!
     
  19. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Dookfish is still in training camp. We've gone over fundamentals. Our goal is to improve every day. There are occasional setbacks, but that's to be expected. That's what training camp is for, to work those sort of things out. We're focused on the fundamentals and improving each day.
     
  20. DookFish

    DookFish Rookie

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    Return of the DookFish-Mayo, Slater, Wheatley and Wilhite-Raw Speed on D and ST

    Camp observations Sunday August 3rd: I apologize for my tardy reply. I attended camp yesterday with the Beanfish and offer a number of miscellaneous observations. The most illuminating drill of the day was again the one on one pass drill. Last week the drill included TEs. In this instance, only the running backs participated in a match up with the ILBs. To my eye, the outstanding performers among the RBs were Sammy Morris and Lamont Jordan. Sammy easily gained separation and caught the ball cleanly without breaking stride. Maroney played to mixed reviews in head to head match-ups with Mayo. In the first rep, Mayo slipped to the turf on the outcut and Maroney waltzed away. The more notable match-up (which to me spoke volumes about the combatants) occured near the end of the drill. Maroney tried an outcut and go. Mayo trailed by a half-step out of the cut and incredibly closed ground against a full speed Maroney on the up. The two players continued full tilt down the sideline with Mayo fixed in Maroney's grill. Brady held the ball, held the ball, and finally dropped the ball in exasperation. There was no separation, not an inch. Mayo also stifled Faulk on a circle route. His skillset in man coverage is lightyears ahead of the next best ILBs. He is a three down ILB. Hobson and Heath appeared ponderous. Tank did not participate, perhaps indicating a failed positional experiment. Bruschi was surprisingly adequate, but Guyton was the Silver Medal winner in this drill. He was physical on the bump, and quick on cuts. The punt drills also caught my eye. The drills were not run at full speed except at the gunner/gunner blocker level. In fact, I thought the drills were designed as a try-out among the gunner blockers. Chad Jackson ran back the bulk of the punts and to my eye lacked the quick cutting and cutback skills critical to success in this arena. Chad Jackson's long speed and stride may work on kick-offs but cannot work on punts. Wilhite stood out as quick and physical as a gunner blocker, but Slater's raw speed blew the DookFish away. As a gunner, he was two steps ahead of his nearest competitor and simply ran around the gunner blockers untouched. Earlier he had circumnavigated a frustrated Merriwether on a cutback punt return. He will not only make the 53. He will be active on the 45 as a kick returner, gunner blocker, gunner, and KR safety. Wheatley stood out both on D, as a gunner and as a gunner blocker. He is lightening fast, quick and surprisingly physical. He turned beautifully on an underthrown Cassell heave off a flea flicker and made the pick. I watched one aspect of the running game carefully and I must regrettfully report that none of our young buck OLBs can set the edge on the sweep. Vrabel is of course the master in this regard. Crable, Pierre and Redd (given a surprising number of snaps) were regularly caught inside or engulfed on sweep after sweep. I also watched Redd in zone coverage. He is huge, but lacking in lateral mobility or ball sense. If he has an NFL career, it will be in a Colvin/Crable rush role. My final observation relates to David Thomas, I observed two remarkable catches-one a tap job on the sideline, one a scoop of an underthrown crossing pattern. He may not be elite in the separation category, but on BB's second criteria (Can he catch the ball?), Thomas is a standout. He also looks noticeably thicker in his second year and may have the bulk now to hold his own on the wham or in line. Respectfully submitted, The DookFish

    P.S. The DookFish, MomBear and the BeanFish depart for Russia and Hong Kong tomorrow night to visit the MookFish and meet up with the ZookFish. The Scoutwease will board with her Aunt. We will return in time for the second exhibition game.
    P.P.S. The BeanFish has heard the posters as to the typing issues and threatens the DookFish with an on-line typing course. The DookFish is not easily cowed and swims off to Asia unbowed and untutored.
     
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