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DookFish camp observations

Discussion in 'Patriots 2008 Training Camp Reports and Photos' started by DookFish, Jul 29, 2008.

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  1. DookFish

    DookFish Rookie

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    I attended camp this evening and would like to offer a more detailed positional report.

    Linebacker: With all due respect Mr. Reiss, the dominant pass rusher at tonight's session during the two minute drill was Rookie Crable. He would have sacked Brady twice , once outside with a speed move, and the other inside with a juke to the outside and a power move inside. His length and stride are sights to behold. He is noticeably taller than other player listed at 6'5" including Woods, Warren and O'Connell. Interestingly, in long yardage and two minute sets Crable was rushing from the outside and Adalius was jumping around on the inside-rushing, and in coverage. I suspect Mr. Reiss may have confused 96 and 98. Tedy showed surprising quickness during one on one RB/TE coverage drills and unlike last year when he was replaced on 3rd down, he was playing on passing downs. Mr. Reiss missed the key point in the Watson seam drop in the endzone. Rookie Mayo after giving Watson a full step off the line showed amazing catch up speed and forced the customary Watson drop. Woods showed no push or edge ability against second tier tackles Britt and O'Callahan. Guyton is this year's clear winner of UDFA of the year award (aka the Alexander/ Gay/Wright/ Woods/Guitierrez trophy). Good size, quickness, positional flexibility and a special team starter on kick and punt coverage teams. He played inside and out and displayed quickness at both, set the edge on two sweeps, will likely start on kick and punt coverage. Ruud and Redd both MIA. Adalius is playing all snaps and is my candidate (not Bruschi) for the green dot helmet. I would guess tthat Vrabel will back-up the Green Dot. Hobson has no coverage ability or quickness. He will lose his spot to Guyton. Izzo is of course not a linebacker but in punt team practice Aiken , not Izzo, played a number of snaps at signal caller/ safety blocker. To me, that suggests Izzo is at risk as Aiken ascends, bigger, stronger and a red zone back-up receiver. The reader may think a comparison of Aiken and Izzo inapposite, but as prime special team candidates they are absolutely competing for a ST slot in the mind of BB.

    Respectfully submitted, The Dookfish

    Next Position:Corner
     
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  2. DW Toys

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    Good post sir.
    Very efficient.
    DW Toys
     
  3. bbabin

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    Thanks! Tons of insight here. Considering Aiken's past special teams exploits and even the fact that he is building somewhat of a rapport with Brady seems to point to him making the team (even if it means the cut of Lizzo).

    Note: This is essentially the same thought proposed (albeit more vehemently) in another thread. I just happen to agree.

    It's also great to hear about Guyton and Crable. I love seeing these young linebackers develop. It seems like the first time we've heard anything positive about a rookie linebacker...

    Also, I apologize for the excessive vocab., I'm in the middle of some GRE prep.
     
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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    EXCELLENT details. I was there and posted a WICKED PISSAH report about Crabs in the 2008 Training Camp section of this website.

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?p=944226#post944226


    I thought Crabs was harrassing mostly Cassel, but whatever. He was huge. I agree with your Mayo, Woods and Guyton observations completely although I'm not ready to say yet that Guy will really beat out Hobson. Anderson was beyond pathetic at LB but he's really a pure ST guy. I see little hope for Woods to be anything other than a desperation sub at LB. Sad 'cause he's a specimen.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2008
  5. DookFish

    DookFish Rookie

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    Corner: Bryant and Wheatley have separated from the pack with rare athleticsm and speed. Bryant picked a Brady force over the middle when Watson and Faulk ran their seam and wheel routes in the same vicinity. Wheatley broke up two endzone shots to Moss. He was beaten twice deep, once by two steps and once for failure to look for the ball. The ability of Moss to outrun, outposition and track the flight of the ball in combination is simply unmatched in pro football. Wheatley never backed down, jarring the ball loose on one occasion with his hands and on another ocassion with a pop. He also did not hesitate to step up and wrap on two sweeps. Interestingly, BB sent him on a blitz off the edge in the two minute. He was stuffed. Lewis Sanders is physical but has clearly lost a step. Richardson made no plays and was beaten badly to the outside repeatedly by Jabbar and Randy, and in the end zone by CJ Jones. Reviews on Wilhite were mixed, physical but beaten badly to the outside repeatedly. Assuming the Hobbit returns in good health, Wheatley, Bryant and the Hobbit will cover, Webster and Wilhite will back up on the 53 and compete for a spot on the 45 on the basis of special teams.

    Respectfully submitted, The Dookfish

    Next Position: Safety
     
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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    I'd had hopes for Richardson after last year although I did not go to camp and see him myself, but I agree that he was mostly ineffective today. Don't remember anything about Sanders but yes, Wheatley is holding his own, esp for a rook.
     
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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    Dook - awesome stuff; THANKS. However, paragraphs are your friend :)

    Anyway, Mayo, Crable and Wheatley from this draft together with Meriweather from last draft are the key to rebuilding this defense so your posts are very exciting. Even before reading this I was starting to wonder if Guyton may knock off Hobson after Guyton popped up positively on several other days.
     
  8. Raffy15

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    i'm pretty pissed that this fool picked off tommy in practice today. who does he think he is? go pick off someone else fernando!
     
  9. Canada's #1 Pats Fan

    Canada's #1 Pats Fan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    NE Insider, is that you?
     
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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    who dat fool?
     
  11. Metaphors

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    Great stuff. Hadn't thought about who would get the dot helmets until now. You make good points about players that will likely be on the field a lot, but wouldn't location on the field play a role as well? I would think you would need to be an inside/middle LB to make the line calls and set the secondary, but I am just guessing. If that is true, then the Pats may have some difficulty with the system since the inside backers are likely to rotate quite a bit.
     
  12. DookFish

    DookFish Rookie

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    Saftey: I am prepared to identify a training camp sleeper. Antwain Spain lit it up for the second successive night with a deflection pick on Brady. Tank is exclusively an ILB at present with not a single rep at SS. Interestingly, Rodney subbed in for Tank at the same position in the two minute. Rodney also took some reps at his traditional SS. Assuming arguendo that Tank is for all purposes an ILB and Rodney is playing at the line on third down and long, that leaves Sanders (inactive tonight) and Merriweather effectively as the deep cover in the dime and probably the nickel. We need three deep cover safeties on the 53. Tank for certain and Rodney at his age are not candidates. The candidates are Webster and shockingly Spann, with the winner likely based on special teams play. Spann had a number of snaps with the 1s and 2s tonight substituting for Sanders. I noted Capers coaching him up on a couple of occasions and Rodney talking to him as well. If he can light it up on special teams, the unlikely Antwann Spain has a shot. You heard it here first. BB rewards performance, not pedigree or draft status. The larger point here is that there are two species of SS in our system: at the line/ILB type SS like Tank and Rodney and back line SS like Sanders and Spann. On the other hand, Meriweather at FS continues to disappoint. On the Brady to Moss to Brady bomb to Jabar (Remember the TD on this call last year!), Jabar dropped the ball this time. More to the point, Meriweather was in position to break up the pass and failed to make a play on the ball. His inability to track the ball in the air, more than his stone hands, is a fatal flaw to FS play in the NFL. I apologize for the harsh review and am no doubt overreacting to one play, but Ed Reed deflects that ball. Ball skills are essential and I have yet to observe same in Mr. Meriweather. Rodney took a surprising number of snaps but sat out (with Pollard) the wind "sprints" at the end of practice.

    Respectfully submitted, The Dookfish

    Next Position: DL

    P.S. The DookFish doesn't do paragraphs.

    P.P.S. The DookFish needs to go to bed.
     
  13. bradmahn

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    :welcome:

    The Dookfish would be great if he didn't assume a week's worth of practices (maybe less) is enough to make any sort of strong speculation on who will or will not make the team. It's also asinine to assume one understands just what Belichick is looking for, be it on offense, defense, or special teams.

    Great observations, though. Keep 'em coming.
     
  14. Box_O_Rocks

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    Thanks Dookfish: Nice to see my man Spann getting some love, I've been reading other reports and I remember his ballhawking in NFLE. He might be the FS candidate you were looking for...

    I'm inclined to think the guy who should be looking over his shoulder at Aiken is Alexander, not Izzo. Larry may not make the cut, but I think Alexander goes before he does.

    Woods: I've not considered him a speed rusher, but more someone who needed to use his strength, reach, and strong technique (e.g. McGinest, and Vrabes to some extent) to reach the passer. I've considered Woods handicapped for development by losing so much playing time in college and being behind some studs in NE. Questions: Dook - you spoke of Guyton setting the edge, did either Crable or Woods get tested against run plays? Was Woods pass rush effort or technique at fault in your eyes?

    Well done - I'm looking forward to your DL analysis.
     
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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    Add me to those who noticed that Hanson was very inconsistent. Several punts were angled and landed in play just 30 yards downfield. The distance and angle (not purposefull) could result in a serious runback by the receiving team. And yes, they did try some out-of-bounds on purpose kicks.

    The CB & LB play needs to improve. I'm figuring that Capers is likely working in new stuff that will take time. I hope so.
     
  16. Keegs

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    yo dookfish, good stuff, please keep it up.

    can you make a new thread next time you do this though...

    so we know where to find it?
     
  17. Leave No Doubt

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    Good idea:agree:
     
  18. bbabin

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    I don't think s/he can with such a low postcount...
     
  19. Keegs

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    well then he/she/fish should just make a couple Dungy-bashing posts until they get enough posts to their credit so he/she/fish can make threads.

    Dungy deserves worse.

    please don't respond to my Dungy comments, i'm honestly not trying to derail this thread.
     
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  20. DookFish

    DookFish Rookie

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    Re: Reiss 7/29 PM notes

    Defensive Line: Let me begin by responding to a comment on LBs by a fellow poster. As to the observation that Alexander is at greater risk than Izzo, I concur though I think they are both at considerable risk given the special team talents of Aiken and Guyton and the return abilities of Slater. Guyton is listed at 6'3" 242 lbs, Alexander at 6'2" 240. The truth is very different. By observation Guyton is 2 or 3 inches taller and 15 lbs heavier. More significantly, Alexander's lack of cover skills were fully evident in the one on one match ups with RB/TEs. He cannot change directions well, and his lack of ball awareness is evident. Most significantly, Alexander took zero reps with the 1s or 2s. On the Dline, the most notable development is the ongoing and obvious search for a NT backup. Wilfork looks quicker this year. He was not turned on a single play as happened his rookie year regularly. He pushed the pile on a couple of bull rushes and made it uncomfortable for Brady/Cassell. He enveloped the ballcarrier on two sweeps on the cutback. He is simply the best defensive player on the team. Interestingly, LeKevin took no snaps at DT and played RDE with the 1s in Seymour's absence. Ty Warren was quiet all evening and did not pressure the QB. The single most impressive rush of the evening was by Steven Fifita on the nose bullrushing over Jimmy Martin to sack the QB. By observation, Fifita's lack of height (6'1" listing exaggerates his stature by at least two inches) would seem to be a major hurdle. Norwell got no reps. Kenny Smith and Santonio Thomas had no penetration but Santonio stood his ground well on running plays. Titus Adams took no reps but his mere presence is a bit disconcerting as the plethora of no talent NTs in camp makes me concerned as to the health of Mike Wright. In addition to back-up NT duties, Wright has historically played a lead blocking role on kickoff returns. Look for Lamont Jordan to play that role in the exhibition season as he did with the Jets in his youth. A discussion of DL would be incomplete without a mention of our third down DEs-Crable, Woods and Adalius last night. Crable will not play a prototypical OLB role. His change of direction limitations make him (like Colvin before him) a liability in coverage. 90 % of his snaps will come from thr right DE position as a pass rusher. His length, stride and surprising strength give him a huge upside. I did not observe Woods make a single play last night after taking all of the snaps with the 1S. He was washed out on a couple of sweeps. He will undoubtedly mare the squad as a special teamer but the pass rush snaps will go to Crable substituting for Bruschi on 3rd down. Adalius will play a different role on those occassions dropping in coverage or opportunistically blitzing the gaps. His third down role will be varied, rushing from RDE with Crable out and taking on the versatile Seau role when Crable is out. Crable will see snaps this year and will quickly go past Woods. Crable is two inches taller by observation and more sudden. My fellow posters may think it odd to see so much ink spilled on Woods/Crable/Adalius on a post devoted to DL. It is no accident. BB is breeding two distinct DE types for different downs and functions. The run stuffers led by Warren and Seymour backed up by LeKevin and Jarvis and the 3rd down pass rushers led by Crable and Woods. Only Vrabel and Adalius play the more traditional and versatile 3-4 outside backer. Most tellingly, during a positional breakout Crable practiced live pass rush with the DLs while all of the other LBs ran a coverage drill. What does that tell us about Crable's skillset and BB's intended use of same? At the risk of overkill, I will observe that the single most impressive physical specimen on the field last night was Crable. Think Jeavann Kearse in his pre-injury youth... Respectfully submitted, The Dookfish
     
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