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Don't Let Congress Bail out Europe with our $$

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, May 11, 2010.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Already, the Fed has approved billions (via the IMF) to bailout Europe. Without the approval of those we voted into office. That's bad enough...but if you think the recent $1T Euro-bailout package is enough to get them back on track, think again.

    It's obvious the Europe's socialist model is the key to their current situation. But does anyone is THIS country have a vested interest in keeping Europe afloat economically? Hmmm...maybe;)

    Would people suffer if we don't bail them out? I dunno, but I'd prefer that Americans not suffer and that our children's future looks bright....and NOT full of taxation. US first!!! :americaflag:

    There is a way we all can help. Call your congress person and ask them to support the Vitter amendment and force the Fed to be audited. This is truly a bill for the American people.

    There is no reason NOT to support it.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
  2. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    Of course this country has a vested interest in keeping Europe afloat.

    On CNBC, they stated this bailout is smaller than New Jersey's state pension plan. Not a whole lot to get worked up about.

    As for the US future being "full of taxation," taxes last year were at the lowest level since Truman. I agree that taxes will need to be raised somewhat in the future. Though, historically, that's not remarkably significant.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    We really don't have a lot at risk if the Euro fails. If you disagree, share your thoughts.

    The USA is not the bailout center for failing economies around the world.

    How much did Europe send us for the TARP?

    Nothing more I'd love to watch is socialism failing...but that's just me. It is not sustainable in it's current model and you really can't debate that fact. Just as California's state gov't wasn't sustainable due to too many costly social programs and public employee benefits.

    Like California, Europe doesn't have a REVENUE problem, they have a SPENDING PROBLEM. And until these problems are address fully, nothing will change moving forward.

    You can't say Europeans feel under-taxed Jack without talking out your arse.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
  4. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    I'm not sure how much of a risk we face from the Euro failing; however, faltering economies in Europe certainly affects the United States and hence, makes this measured response warranted.

    Can you point to an exact number in actual cash outlays that the Fed is providing Europe for the purposes of this debt stabilization program? I'd really like to see your exact figure on this.

    How is that relevant? Are you claiming the US should only offer foreign aid if we get something in return?

    This is incredibly rich, considering the financial crisis we just went though. But that wasn't indicative of the failings of capitalism. No sir. But you seem just fine using this crisis as a blanket indictment of socialism.

    Actually, I would argue that California has more of a revenue problem than a spending problem, though there are efficiencies to be found in both directions.

    Likewise, referring to Europe as some sort of monolithic entity that is experiencing the same level of crisis across the continent is silly.

    Where did I make that claim?
     
  5. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Better yet, PR can argue it with himself since a few weeks ago he offered a differing opinion. (Or what appears to be a differing opinion, anyhow. I have a hard time keeping up.)

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...id-about-greece-1974-a-page2.html#post1809491

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...uro-inevitable-says-french-banking-chief.html
     
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    How much has the US contributed to the Greek bailout? Hey smartie...why do you think I'm encouraging everyone to call their congressman to support the Vitter amendment? As of today, the Fed doesn't have to tell "we the people". The Vitter amendment will make it public knowledge and a good reason why you support it.

    I have stated many times here that I've been opposed to bailouts....all of them. I don't mind our economy bottoming-out naturally and I don't care if Europe's does the same.

    Read the article below and you'll see it clearly states that

    "any bailout of the stricken Greek economy would only provide 'sticking plasters' to cover the deep- seated flaws in the eurozone bloc."

    Collapse of the euro is 'inevitable': Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief
    By Sam Fleming and Tim Shipman

    Last updated at 1:07 PM on 13th February 2010

    "The European single currency is facing an 'inevitable break-up' a leading French bank claimed yesterday.

    Strategists at Paris-based Société Générale said that any bailout of the stricken Greek economy would only provide 'sticking plasters' to cover the deep- seated flaws in the eurozone bloc.

    The stark warning came as the euro slipped further on the currency markets and dire growth figures raised the prospect of a 'double-dip' recession in the embattled zone. Claims that the euro could be headed for total collapse are particularly striking when they come from one of the oldest and largest banks in France - a core founder-member."


    Greece debt bailout: EU leaders split over euro crisis | Mail Online

    So why bail them out if collapse is inevitable?

    Money doesn't come from thin air and there's a price to be paid for deficits. If you actually believe countries throwing money at these problems will help in the long, then good for you. But you'd be wrong. When does it end? How much money is enough?

    Earlier, I stated that the Euro failing wouldn't hurt the US much because they'll all just go to their own currencies once again.

    The "Failing" of the US economy certainly isn't due to capitalism mon frere. It was more like it was due to socialist-like spending and lack of regulations that allowed for unqualified people to get loans.

    We never should have started with the "everyone deserves a house of their own" BS...because the FACT is, if you can't afford it, you don't deserve it...plain & simple.

    The basics of capitalism remain strong & intact. But the basics of socialism via the European model are doomed...I'll guarantee you that!
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
  7. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    It was a failing of state capitalism i.e. socialism where the risk is transferred to the taxpayer while the rewards are reaped by speculators. In true capitalism, speculators assume both the risk and the reward hence inherently preferring less risky investments.
     
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Extremely well said Khayos!:rocker:
     
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Is our money being used to bailout Europe?


    The Euro is toast, as it should be. What it's done to the middle, and lower working classes in Italy is horrendous. I've seen the quality of life in that country suffer since it's inception. The people where I'm from, absolutely hate it. It's the worst fiscal decision Italy's ever made. The sooner that currency goes under, the better it will be for the working class there.
     
  10. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    You'll have to explain how that would work outside of the abstract, since those who advocate for a truly free-market system and limited government are by and large from the same school who advocated for the deregulation that led to the formation of the failed MBS's in the first place.
     
  11. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    Deregulation <> GSEs. The "too big to fail" concept has been implicitly understood for a long time, hence the development of all the financial products that were backed by the good fail of the US government. Hence TARP. If you don't even understand that part of it then I hope you go nowhere near your retirement account for your own good.
     
  12. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    :confused:

    I wasn't even referring to GSE's, so spare me the condescension when you're not even reading what is written.
     
  13. patsfan13

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    Say the man who sets up straw men (persons?) to prove a false premise. Crony Capitalism isn't capitalism.
     
  14. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes I believe so. The US is the largest contributor to the IMF (17.1%) and Bernake's trying to issue a blank check. Plus it's more like 2 Trillion now.

    Rhambo's working the phones (aka strong arming in Chitown style) to stop the proposed Fed audit. But yes, our tax dollars at work.
     
  15. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Maybe the US and Europe have this all planned out. Crash our economies so they can start a new world gov't.

    Over millions of dead bodies....:rocker:
     
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Insanity is continuing to do what doesn't work and thinking THIS TIME WILL BE DIFFERENT.

    They are Spending/Power junkies pure and simple.
     
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    PR, I like to read the user comments to articles, and I've seen a lot of people mentioning that. I hope that never happens.
     
  18. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    lot of conspiracy nuts out there
     
  19. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    In times of crisis like we're in now, you have to look at all the potential scenarios and consider "what if?".

    Personally, I would join forces with whatever group strongly opposes a "world gov't" if that option became a reality. And I would not act peacefully if that's what was necessary.

    And I would fight until, well....

    PATRIOTSREIGN!
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    I'm really not sure how productive that is. Seems like an overreaction to me.
     

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