Don't hit me: Would taking Moss away from Brady make Brady better?

[Kontradiction]

I agree.

And now I'm getting out of here, the lynch mob has been drinking...

Lynch mob? I see the same people that conceivably don't have much of a life outside of this place. The same can be said for myself, of course, with my exorbitant post count. However, I spread my internet time evenly between this and Facebook.

 

[JSn]

Lynch mob? I see the same people that conceivably don't have much of a life outside of this place. The same can be said for myself, of course, with my exorbitant post count. However, I spread my internet time evenly between this and Facebook.

Haha. That's good. Gotta keep the "friends" on Fakebook looped in.

 

[Yfz01]

I can't see how anyone here can't agree that Brady is most dangerous when he has an offense to where he can throw the ball to the 'open receiver' to which any of the receivers including tight ends are in sights of his passes and know how to CATCH them.

Brady zeroing in on 2 targets because the others suck is not as good as it was 5 years ago,I would rather have 5 no big names but solid contributors than just 2 good ones on the field and 3 that blow.

No you wouldn't...

Not only would you have a bad defense, you'd have a bad offense as well.

What about him forcing passes to Aiken? Isn't that the fault of Randy Moss? I mean, if Moss was open Brady wouldn't have forced three INTs in Aikens direction during the playoff game! Moss only caught all 6(?) passes that went his direction.

 

[BradyFTW!]

FWIW, in 2004 Moss missed 3 games. In those same 3 games, Culpepper has his 3 lowest yardage games of the season. He had a monster season and quite a few prior to that year.

Yup, and while revisionist history says that it's his knee injury in 2005 that ended Culpepper's time as an effective NFL QB--and it just so happened to coincide with Moss' departure--he wasn't injured until the seventh game of the year. So for 7 games, he was fully healthy sans Moss, and it was beyond ugly:

139/216, 1564 yards (223 YPG), 6 TD, 12 INT, 72 rating. Remember, this was a year after he went 379/548, with 4717 yards, 39 TDs, 11 INTs, and a 110 rating. If Manning hadn't set the TD record that year, he would have been MVP.

So, in short, Moss was so good that he turned a JAG QB into an MVP candidate. And, since he showed up, Brady has, when healthy, elevated his game to unprecedented levels. But yeah, this is all a roundabout way of saying that Moss has somehow made Brady a worse player.

In 2007, when there were other targets to hit, Brady hit them. In 2009, we only had 2 weapons, and it showed. Moss isn't the problem, our WRs after Welker/Moss are.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Statistically speaking, when healthy in 2006, Branch put up almost identical numbers to his best year in NE. Patten had a strong 2007 w/ NO. Givens was hurt. Gaffney improved. Dan Graham was the same. Even Jermaine Wiggins had monster years in MN. IMO Brady making WRs better than what they are is a myth. Great QB no question. But not a miracle worker. Defense, execution, misdirecton were Brady's friends in 01 and 03. 04 was a brutal running game and again, outstanding D.

Exactly. If Brady could just magically turn receivers into competent players, then wouldn't we have seen that with Joey Galloway, Isaiah Stanback, or Sam Aiken?

 

[Yfz01]

Exactly. If Brady could just magically turn receivers into competent players, then wouldn't we have seen that with Joey Galloway, Isaiah Stanback, or Sam Aiken?

No because Moss was making Galloway drop those passes! Its obvious that Moss said, "Look Joey, gotta drop them passes so Brady forces me the ball"

Seriously, it's Moss fault that BRADY forces him the ball? How does that work? And its also funny that Brady would sometimes throw no passes towards Moss in an entire half (ie. Ravens game, Broncos game - well he threw one to Moss in the first half, but he missed him on a guaranteed TD)

 

[zoostation]

no...........

 

[BradyFTW!]

No because Moss was making Galloway drop those passes! Its obvious that Moss said, "Look Joey, gotta drop them passes so Brady forces me the ball"

Seriously, it's Moss fault that BRADY forces him the ball? How does that work? And its also funny that Brady would sometimes throw no passes towards Moss in an entire half (ie. Ravens game, Broncos game - well he threw one to Moss in the first half, but he missed him on a guaranteed TD)

When Brady doesn't throw to Moss, it's because Moss is dogfaking loser. When he does throw to Moss, he's forcing it. Duh.

 

[Deus Irae]

Exactly. If Brady could just magically turn receivers into competent players, then wouldn't we have seen that with Joey Galloway, Isaiah Stanback, or Sam Aiken?

Raising the game of his receivers does not necessarily mean making the completely useless suddenly seem ready for the Pro Bowl. However

Reche Caldwell
Deion Branch
David Givens
Wes Welker
Randy Moss
Troy Brown and
David Patten

are among those who've had their best years, at least arguably, with Brady as their QB.

 

[BradyManny]

Raising the game of his receivers does not necessarily mean making the completely useless suddenly seem ready for the Pro Bowl. However

Reche Caldwell
Deion Branch
David Givens
Wes Welker
Randy Moss
Troy Brown and
David Patten

are among those who've had their best years, at least arguably, with Brady as their QB.

And Jabar Gaffney, and a 7th round rookie quarterback-turned-wideout in Julian Edelman. Bethel Johnson is out of the league and he was decent - for a time - while he was here. The guys that really failed here, Gabriel, Chad Jackson, etc., they're all out of the league. Galloway never caught a pass for the Steelers and probably won't be in the league this year.

I'm not sure what my point is though.

I suppose my point would be that every time Brady has had a wide receiving group that went 4 or 5 deep, they made it to the Super Bowl (2003, 2004, 2007). He certainly made it there without a deep group in 2001, but he's never failed with a group that deep. We'd lost Patten in 2005 & Troy was on the downside. 2006, well that speaks for itself. We regrouped in 2007, and set records and were one crazy play from 19-0.

This is why wide receiver is my top priority this offseason.

 

[RobertWeathers]

What did you just call me?

You sorry SOB....Solitary.......A Month!

 

[Kontradiction]

You sorry SOB....Solitary.......A Month!

Give him another month to think about it.

It's funny because his last name is the same as my last name. So, for a time, I was rooting for him (when I first saw that movie, of course) until I realized that he was just an evil P.O.S. Suffice to say, my namesake got his in the end.

 

[Jangles]

That's like asking if taking away a soldiers gun makes him a better soldier

Without a gun he might brush up on several things he doesn't worry about while carrying a gun but he isn't going to last long in a fight against armed enemies.

If that doesn't make sense. Taking Moss away might force Brady to try and spread the ball around, that won't work when you have WRs who can't catch a pass though. At this point with Welker out Moss is his only option. Edelman is alright I guess so really Brady has about 1 3/4 WRs to throw too.

Taking Moss away solves nothing

 

[RobertWeathers]

Give him another month to think about it.

It's funny because his last name is the same as my last name. So, for a time, I was rooting for him (when I first saw that movie, of course) until I realized that he was just an evil P.O.S. Suffice to say, my namesake got his in the end.

Byron Hadley had a heart of gold. A gentle, compassionate soul. He was just misunderstood.

 

[bigfandan]

If Edeleman and Tate each can catch 40-60 passes this year, then we are set at #3/#4 WR. Tate is especially important for developing a post threat. We need a bigger body receiver down field, other than Moss who is mostly on lower % routes. The odds of Tate becoming that threat can not be more than 30%-40% (at this moment). We could use Watson/Baker as that higher % down field threat (maybe TE post or seam routes). Coaching and scheme will need to adjust for more TE involvement. But the problem with this is conditioning of Watson/Baker; can they be sent on routes regularly and be relied on to create separation, ala Dallas Clark/Jason Witten. The answer to that is mostly likely no. A younger David Thomas would have been perfect here but the coaches did not like his blocking. (Which traces back to issues on OL; Colts OL is clearly better).

A prudent solution is to draft or trade for a legit #2/strong #3 receiver. Bryant, Breaston, or even Branch (of 2005 vintage) would work beautifully; AND ADDITIONALLY trade for a younger and more atheletic TE. With our TE draft history, forget about drafting a TE, just trade for a TE.

If both the new WR and new TE work out as hoped (30% odds), we shall have a top flight passing offense again. If one works out and another does not (50% odds), we can still pin hopes on a small miracle that Edeleman and Tate (40%) will both emerge ala Garcon and Collie with Colts. If none of these work out as hoped (30% odds), we will need a miracle from coaching staff to make this offense work and keep Brady healthy.

So if BB makes a move for both a legit WR and legit TE (a street FA David Patten does not count in this category):
I compute our odds of a potent passing offense at 50% (very arbitrary, my best guestimation)
30% top flight (both TE and WR external moves work out)
20% = 50% (1 external move works out and 1 does not)*40% (but Edelman and Tate step up more than expected)
----------
50% odds we have a very good offense, assuming watson and Baker will not contribute significantly to pass catching.

And Jabar Gaffney, and a 7th round rookie
quarterback-turned-wideout in Julian Edelman. Bethel Johnson is out of the league and he was decent - for a time - while he was here. The guys that really failed here, Gabriel, Chad Jackson, etc., they're all out of the league. Galloway never caught a pass for the Steelers and probably won't be in the league this year.

I'm not sure what my point is though.

I suppose my point would be that every time Brady has had a wide receiving group that went 4 or 5 deep, they made it to the Super Bowl (2003, 2004, 2007). He certainly made it there without a deep group in 2001, but he's never failed with a group that deep. We'd lost Patten in 2005 & Troy was on the downside. 2006, well that speaks for itself. We regrouped in 2007, and set records and were one crazy play from 19-0.

This is why wide receiver is my top priority this offseason.