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Don't hit me: Would taking Moss away from Brady make Brady better?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JSn, Feb 25, 2010.

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  1. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Now I know they both had very good numbers and pro-bowl performances last year, but with Welker being out for at least six games and Moss getting shipped away, would we see the return of the Brady who spreads the ball around?

    OR do we think Moss and Welker were just the only real options he had?
  2. robertweathers

    robertweathers Rookie

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    Yes. 10 chars
  3. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Brady might not try to force the ball as much, but "better?" No.
  4. PatsChamp88

    PatsChamp88 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Seeing how Brady struggled to find anyone open without Welker I don't see how taking away Moss would significantly help unless his replacement got open more and still drew double coverage.
  5. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    NO. There were times last year that I thought that, but realistically it would be nice for Moss to accept a role on the team where he works hard to draw double-teams and the Pats pick up a legitimate 3rd receiver for Brady, assuming Edelman can replace a majority of Welker's production.

    What did I miss as far as you claiming that Moss is "getting shipped away" except for the rumor I see on here about him "maybe" getting traded to Dallas.
  6. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Yeah, I definitely wouldn't consider it without reasonable replacements. Just something I was wondering about. I'd be happy to see Moss retire here, of course.
  7. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Sorry, that bit was hypothetical. But Moss sure isn't working hard to stay in favour right now.
  8. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nah. In 2007, there were a few weeks where it looked as if Brady was beginning to develop the "gunslinger" mentality (to an extent, of course), but luckily Moss was able to jump for the ball on those occasions and snag the catch. Since then, I haven't seen that as much. I just think this year was a result of having two main options and not much else after that. Pretty much everything meaningful that Aiken caught was a stroke of pure luck and he was rarely, if ever, open (despite seeing single coverage). The tight ends were forced to play blocker roles on a good chunk of their snaps. When Watson was able to run routes, Brady would hit him. Same thing with Baker. And Edelman and Tate has injury issues. Hopefully they can be counted on more in their sophomore seasons.

    This year Brady will have more options to work with in the receiving corps, which should hopefully offset any occasion on which the tight ends (whomever they may be) have to stay back and block.
  9. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    no.......unless you bring back charlie weis as OC
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They were. That said, while it won't make Brady better - in the statistical sense too many equate better with - it might make the team and the scheme better in the only way that matters - wins - if not immediately in the forseeable future. We need Brady getting into a rhythm with the guys he is going to be closing out his career with sooner rather than later. The team would be better served IMHO if those guys were young, physical, versatile WR (as well as better run blocking and RB's) who make the most of Brady's greatest assets, his ability to read defenses and the adaptability to take what those defenses are giving him.

    Much like we've seen teams become too reliant on a QB, like say Manning, to carry the day or bail them out, this whole team has revolved around Brady to Moss since 2007. Opponents have been able to counter that, despite still allowing for otherwise impressive stats. Reminds me of Manning and Harrison, who for some reason never showed up in the postseason. That team didn't win until Dungy convinced them to move away from that reliance bordering on expectation and play like what each of them did mattered, be it on offense or defense. They won a SB largely relying on a running game and defense.
  11. PatsOvation

    PatsOvation Rookie

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    No...removing Moss isn't the answer to make Brady better. Getting Welker back and making Moss his 2nd option will help. More than anything...getting some creativity back in the playcalling would help.
  12. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    Brady's 2 best years came in the 2 years he had Moss and Welker. There is not one single objective measurement you can use to argue that Brady is "better" without Moss. All this talk about "forcing" it to Moss and Welker stems from a flawed perception of why the Patriots won 3 SBs in 4 years. Human memories tend to let the negative aspects go, and when we look back 5 years ago we only tend to remember the good stuff. We (unintentionally) forget all the struggles, failed and stalled drives. We forget all the times we had to punt and the struggles and close games in the playoffs. We forget how important the GREAT defenses of 03/04 were to the success of the Patriots. We recall all the spreading the ball out and forget that correlation doesn't imply causation.

    Spreading the ball around makes sense when you have multiple options of similar abilities or lacking abilities. Spreading the ball around makes 0 sense when you have 2 AMAZING receivers and then special teams players. Even still, Brady does not have some complex that he can't get over unless Moss is gone. Brady is going to make the right decision more often than any other QB in the NFL, whether he has Moss or not. Moss, until he hits a brick wall, makes the offense better.

    The Patriots will be better when they have multiple receiving options ala 2007, but trading Moss only hurts that end goal.
  13. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    brady doesnt look moss and welker way TOO much

    usually they get the ball b/c when he makes his progression of reads, moss and welker are open

    when theyre not, the other wr's are not, and brady will force it to moss/welker rather than an aiken/edelman....which to me is fine logic

    now give him 2 more average wr's, who can get open when the top 2 are not, and brady will be fine
  14. Sivy

    Sivy Rookie

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    Moss isnt getting shipped away.
  15. PatsBoy12

    PatsBoy12 Rookie

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    I say YES. I like the Brady that spread the ball around earlier in the decade . . . the less predictable offense . . . the Brady that would look at the whole field and not zero in on one or two guys and try to force balls in. Of his 12 or so picks last season, at least half of them were him just throwing the ball up to Moss and hoping that he'd make a play. That usually was the case with Moss in the past, and Brady certainly did plenty of that in the record-breaking year, but Moss just doesn't fight for them anymore.

    Getting rid of Moss means Brady would have to spread the ball around and I think that benefits Brady and the whole offense.
  16. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Spending $9M on Moss ($20M of which he received in 2008 and 2009 as his employer noted yesterday) is one of the reasons we don't have better multiple receiving options and a better defense these days...

    If Moss is not the focus, he will disappear altogether. Keeping him engaged has become as much a part of the problem as any kind of solution.
  17. yopats

    yopats Rookie

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    Courageous Post.. I do see some relevance to this point..
  18. PatsBoy12

    PatsBoy12 Rookie

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    Yeah, I'd have to agree here. Keeping Moss engaged has become a job and a hassle.
  19. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    The offense that struggled to score and wasn't as good as the 07 or even 09 offenses. Yeah I long for those days too :/

    Only 2007 did he have a better TD:INT ratio. Every year of his career he has thrown 12-14 INT (except 2007).

    Doesn't fight for them anymore? Separated shoulder... and led the league in TDs.


    Brady had to spread the ball around in 2006, do you REALLY want to go back to that? Moss has been a part of 2 of the 3 best offenses the Patriots have fielded this decade, with 2004 (Dillon monster year) being the only case against 2009.

    We didn't win in 03/04 because Brady spread the ball around, we won for many many many reasons. Moss is not preventing us from getting WR depth, but WR depth is absolutely something we need (ala 2007 not 2006)
  20. satz

    satz Rookie

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    I cannot believe the amount of people who rate aiken and stanback as good WR.

    i am amazed .IN 07 when we had a good 3rd and 4th option did you cry with both gaffney and stallworth catchihng 80 balls between them

    are you saying aiken and stanback = stallworth and gaffney !!! brady is ignoring them for some reason.
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