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Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pats D

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  1. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    Peyton almost scored 3 late TDs? Must be his usual magic, right?

    Well, after getting three score leads against CIN and PIT - that Patriots D allowed both Roethlisberger and Carson Palmer's offenses to score an additional three TDs late in the game.

    A 31-3 game against CIN (halfway through the 3rd) ended up being 38 - 24.

    A 23-3 game against Pit (in the 4th quarter) ended up being 39 - 26

    Also, A 14 -10 game against the Jets (late in the 3rd) ended up being a 28-14 loss

    I won't even mention the 30 points that a Ryan Fitzpatrick lead Bills team managed to score against the Pats. Or the CLE game.

    Again, the biggest difference between being up 21 (Steelers) or being up 3 (Colts) or losing the game (Jets) is whether the O can keep scoring -- which they always have to -- which is why they are ranked #1 in points (out of bare necessity). The D keeps leaking like a sieve.

    Turnovers are nice, but they don't happen often enough to hang your hat on 'em...
  2. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Ladies and gentlemen of the court, I call to the stand the prevent defense. [​IMG]
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
  3. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    This wasn't the same as the Cincinatti/Pittsburgh games. Cincinatti game was over on the 2nd half kickoff. The Pittsburgh game was over on the Sanders TD early in the 4th quarter.

    This game was never over until the final seconds, those TD's he scored were far from garbage time, that was him getting his team back into the game and having a legit shot to WIN the game at the end.
  4. Box_O_Rocks

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Your honor, I call to the stand the NE Offense with one 3 and out and one 4 play drive back to back while the defense forced Indy on 7, 7, and a 9 play drive (for the final interception) to end the game. Anyone miss Mike Wright sitting on the bench to end the game with an injury? Or Myron Pryor inactive? Wilfork and Warren as your interior pass rush is going to wear down fairly quickly.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
  5. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Complaining that the offense couldn't execute drives in crunch time doesn't exactly speak highly for your defense. If we have to rely on the offense to keep the defense off of the field because the following happens...

    7 plays, 73 yds, 2:26, TD
    7 plays, 73 yds, 2:18, TD
    9 plays, 50 yds, 1:48, INT

    ...then that, IMO, speaks volumes about the style of defense that we began to run in the fourth quarter more than the offense. And yes, I missed both Wright and Pryor. But Roethlisberger shredded the prevent defense a week before even WITH Mike Wright in.
  6. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Oh hey, another thread about our defense, 2010's Laurence Maroney.
  7. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Actually PIT cameback and was in the game right up until the botched onside kick....

    It was a 10 point game at that time.
  8. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Nothing sucks as bad as Laurence Maroney....
  9. SoonerPatriot

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Nail meet head. Agreed. Tiring. Very tiring, especially after a big win. Or did we win?:bricks:
  10. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Eh, I'd have to disagree there. The fact that needed to try an onsides tells you the game wasn't as close. Indy was able to kick to to us twice and on the last drive we even picked up a first down. Different situations IMO, especially considering Peyton did it to us last year too. Gotta give him some credit for that.
  11. Ron Sellers

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    The context of those games needs to be looked at as much, if not more than the stats. In the Cincinnati and Pittsburgh games, the outcome was pretty much already determined when a large portion of the yardage and points were allowed.

    And if you're going to look at stats such as yardage then you have to look at a much more important stat: turnovers. I'm willing to bet there's a better correlation to winning and a positive turnover differential than there is to winning and a positive yardage differential.

    News flash, that Peyton Manning guy is pretty good - despite his three picks Sunday. As much as we may hate to admit it, he does deserve some credit.


    It is starting to feel like Groundhog Day with these weekly (daily?) "Pats defense stinks" threads.
  12. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Again, the biggest difference between being up 21 (Steelers) or being up 3 (Colts) is whether the O can keep scoring .....
  13. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Three Colts drives ended in an int. I say the defense did its job.
  14. Metaphors

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Sigh.

    The defense is young. They can throw out a realistic lineup where Meriweather (26 yo) is the grizzled vet. You think they may have a hard time closing out games against Carson Palmer (#1 overall pick), Joe Flacco (1st round pick), Phillip Rivers (1st round pick), Ben Roethlisberger (1st round pick, 2 titles), and Peyton Manning (#1 overall pick, 1 title)? How about giving them a little credit for holding those QBs to 17, 17, 3, 3 and 14 points after 3 quarters. Oh yeah...and the Pats won all 5 games.

    The defense obviously has some improving to do. These experiences are helping a lot of these guys grow up right before our eyes. Given reasonable health, the defense could see significant improvement by the time the playoffs start. If that does happen, the rest of the AFC better hope that the road to the SB doesn't go through Foxboro.

    Now remember that the only players of consequence not under contract for 2011 are Light and Mankins...and the likelihood of 4+ impact players being added in 5 months...and the return of Bodden and Warren...well, I'm just enjoying the ride. Even if it gets a little bumpy from time to time.
  15. RayClay

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Why would he want credit for a loss?

    Turnovers happened three more times to them than us, which is a good thing.

    Is this some sort of secret code? What does it even mean? Do we have to fill out a Bingo card and win the game? Please, give me a clue.

    We had a comfortable lead...OK

    We won the game by a comfortable margin. What were we supposed to do?:confused:
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
  16. VectorPrime

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Lets make this clear since you are apprentlly too dumb to realize it.

    Peyton Manning is good. Not just good but one of the best of all time. He WILL score on you NO MATTER WHAT. Did you know in the 03 game we were up 31-10 at one point? The game that was decided by a final goal line stand?

    Look it was the offense who left the defense out to dry, the defense played great all things considered.
  17. supafly

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Love this post. Great points, well written.
  18. AndyJohnson

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    The Patriots went ahead 17 points with 10:23 left.
    A strategy that says if the Colts have 2 TD drvies and the Patriots have 2 drives that take up the rest of the 10:23 it is a total, complete success.

    The Colts next 2 drives took a combined 4:44.
    The Patriots 2 drives took a combined 3:14 which gave the Colts the ball back at their own 26 with 2:54 left.
    The first drive of the 2 took 53 seconds.
    Every Patriot drive prior to that resulted in a score except one which lasted 3:06 on only 5 plays.
    Had the first drive gained 1 first down and taken 3:06, even with the second drive still being the worst of the day at 2:54, the Patriots would have taken up 6 minutes of the 10:23 remaining simply by gaining 1 first down on each drive and running 9 total plays. The Colts 2 TD drives took 4:44. At best the Colts would have had to burn all their timeout and had about 30 seconds left deep in their own territory, if only the offense had gained 2 first downs and run 9 plays in 2 drives. That same offense that had 4 TDs, 1 FG and one punt after a 3:06 drive in their 6 possessions so far.
    It is ridiculous to say that playing conservative and playing the clock with 10:23 left and a 17 point lead is the wrong thing to do.
  19. AndyJohnson

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Why is a turnover consider a 'bad' stop?
  20. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Botched onside kick? What does that mean? Do you really think a team down 10 and onside kicking is in the game, and NOT recovering the onside kick is a fluke?
  21. RayClay

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Did you mean to quote someone else? No clue what that means in regard to my post.
  22. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    I was adding on to your post, responding to a point made in the same one you were responding to.
    Kinda like 'yeah, and also.....'
  23. RayClay

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    He said something like hang your hat on a turnover, which I couldn't figure. I did some thinking and i don't think we ever covered well, or sacked Peyton much, even in our glory days. I recall putting up some points, making him throw, then getting key pressures and turnovers. He's just too good to think you're going to sack him or shut his receivers down, it's a fantasy.
  24. andrewgarrr

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    It's harder to imagine a team consistently getting turnovers rather than consistently getting stops on defense. True, we probably never defended Peyton very well, but I'd still feel more comfortable if the defense was stopping them rather then getting some slightly opportunistic turn overs. (That play is equally a bad move by Peyton as it is a great play by our defense).

    For example, the Saints defense had a unusually high turn-over differential last year and that helped them get to the Super Bowl. Also, it's kind of why we let Asante go loose, right? He gambles too much on getting the turnover/big play instead of consistently covering the routes and his zones.

    I'd ecstatic about the turnovers and the awesome defensive plays, but I'm also hopeful that the defense will not have to rely on a turnover to stop a good offense - that they will match up and just beat them with good run stopping and coverage.
  25. Cantabrigian

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Given how much responsibility Manning has for running the offense, he can certainly be blamed for the interceptions as well.

    Good article below on what Manning does at the LOS below.

    What Peyton Manning is doing (and how to beat him) | Blue Sunday

    A separate article on the same blog noted that the defensive schemes (making the cover three look like a cover two) contributed to at least 2 of Manning's INTs vs the Pats.

    Poor tackling and Manning miscues allow Patriot escape - dirty hit sidelines Collie again | Blue Sunday
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  26. RayClay

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    I'm not imagining it, I'm describing how we've been successful against Peyton Manning most every time we have been.

    We've also failed to be successful.

    Think Rodney Harrison, Teddy Bruschi, Ty Law. You may think we should be able to consistently cover all his receivers and get consistent pressure, but I think getting a couple turnovers (three yesterday) due to occasional pressure has been the reality.

    Consistently stopping Peyton on downs is what requires imagination. Never happened in my experience.
  27. MassPats38

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    There have been what, 3 blowout wins, in all the Pats-Colts games in the last decade? Two of those were when the Colts were coming together as a team early on. Manning isn't a dummy, so he tends to figure out defenses and finds ways of turning it on in the second half.

    This defense is young and will make mistakes. Manning is experienced and knows how to get inexperienced defenders in the secondary to bite. His throws were on the money, so the rookies have a small margin of error for any mistakes they might make. The receivers were not wide open, just open enough to catch very accurate passes.

    The reality is this young defense will make mistakes all year, and last week was no exception. Credit Sanders for the defensive stop and the win when it counted. If you are looking for the Ravens defense this year, it's not going to happen. That level does not develop overnight, so the developmental progress this year is all the more remarkable.

    This team is 8-2, and the defense deserves some of the credit for that record. The defense, for the most part, has played when it has to do so, and has made key stops when stops were needed.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  28. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Did the Colts win?
  29. NYCPatsFan

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    Don't give Paymetons credit? Please...I hate him against us but consider TB and him as the very best.

    Read Curran's article today to get a perspective of what Manning has consistently done to this team and other teams.

    Oh, you might also get some perspective of how our current team is and might be inclined to be less critical.
  30. AndyJohnson

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    Re: Don't give Peyton the credit - it wasn't him, it was business as usual for the Pa

    So is a stop.
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