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Does Wilfork at DE change your thinking?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by patchick, Oct 24, 2010.

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  1. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    I've seen a few posters say that 3-4 DE is the team's #1 draft need. After 2 games of watching the Patriots stifle the run with a Wilfork-G. Warren-Deaderick line, it seems worth asking...

    Could it be that the team is stacked with Wilfork, T. Warren, Deaderick & Wright at DE, but in need of a nose tackle?
  2. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    I think that the fact that Wilfork is playing end speaks towards the need even more. He's such a good player that he can be moved around but his natural position is nose. I think that having Deaderick as the long-term replacement to Warren (and given the nature of that hip injury it is something that needs to be at least considered) is a nice thing to have. If they go draft a potentially great DE early I think it will increase the overall effectiveness of the line in the long term.

    That said, I still think that guard and RT are quite high as well.
  3. reamer

    reamer Rookie

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    Jays, have you seen Nick Fairley play this year? Defensive tackle for Auburn. Since you know a lot more about football than I do, I'd love to hear your thoughts on his potential fit in our offense. I'm all sold, but I don't know that much.

    And I agree that playing Wilfork at DE is a nice change of pace, but it would be better if we had a stud DE playing DE so that we could put big #75 back in the middle of the defense.
  4. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    Having Wilfork play at DE gives the Pats the slowest, fattest, most unathletic DL in football.

    We need another Richard Seymour at DE - not another Gerard Warren.
  5. jays52

    jays52 Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    I haven't but I have seen the talk on here and it has got me pretty interested in the guy. I'll check out his games for the rest of the season, try to find some youtube stuff and get back to you when I feel like I have an understanding of the guy. Thanks for the words man, and you definitely know your stuff as well.

    Edit: Watching some youtube stuff right now...jesus christ. He's one powerful individual. Nice length...good technique...good awareness of setting up his moves.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  6. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rookie

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    I agree with Jay. It speaks to the lack of talent/depth at DE in my opinion.

    I think it makes the opponent's offense more "predictable" in a sense because you kind of force them to run to the other side. Many offensive coordinators will just try to run away from Wilfork like many teams run away from Ngata when he's lined up at DE. It almost shuts down one side of the field in terms of run defense and kind of dictates where the other team has to run the ball.

    We could really use Ty Warren and hopefully we get a rejuvenated and healthy Warren back next season. I still think RDE is one of the more pressing needs. Wright is a nice penetrator in the sub D, but I don't know if he will ever be capable of holding up at RDE. Deaderick is making some strides but overall remains a project in my eyes.

    The real disappointment is Brace. If we hit on that pick like we should have and had a healthy Ty Warren, we'd be looking pretty good. To have to burn another high pick on a DL is going to suck, but that's just the way it looks like it's going to be.

    Cunningham looks like a player, but I still think OLB is a pressing need. I'm not a big Ninkovich guy, and TBC is a sub rusher and not a starter, as basically every one said when they re-signed him.
  7. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    Thanks for all the thoughts. I'm actually with the majority here, but there are a few posters on the main board who feel that Wilfork is "finally being used at his natural position" at DE.

    Fairley would be tremendous...those arms alone make it easy to picture him manning Seymour's old spot.
  8. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    The Patriots may be ready to move on from Warren next year. He seems to be on the downward trend. The draft seems to be stacked at 3-4 DEs, I expect (and hope) that they focus on the trenches. A single pass rushing OLB is not going to solve the lack of pressure, the entire front seven must improve.

    I remember Jimmy Johnson describing how to build a team, his approach was "Be domninant on the offensive and defensive lines and then get a franchise QB". It is easy to remember Aikman, Smith, Irvin, etc. but those Cowboys teams had one of the best offensive lines in history and a great defensive line.

    3-4 DE candidates
    Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State, 6-5 285
    Adrian Clayborn, DE, Iowa, 6-3 286 <-- a little smallish (funny 286 pounds is small)
    Allen Bailey, DE, Miami (Fla.) 6-4 288
    Cameron Jordan, DE , California 6-4 285
    Christian Ballard, DE, Iowa 6-4 298

    Juniors
    J.J. Watt, DE, Wisconsin, 6-6 290
    Marcell Dareus, DT, Alabama, 6-3 309
    Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn, 6-4 298
    Jared Crick, DT, Nebraska , 6-6 285
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  9. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    While VW has played well at DE, i think he's better suited for NT. So far ive been impressed by Fairly, Dareus, and Clayborn the most. Someone said that Dareus at 6'3" is a couple of inches to short to play DE in Belichicks scheme, but how tall is VW and hes getting it done. Overall i think Fairly is Perfect, but he has to declare and we have to have Oakland loose enough to be in the top 5-7 range to grab him i would think.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  10. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    I think both Deaderick and Wilfork at DE speaks volumes.

    At this point, I'm almost ready to say OL has leapfrogged DE as a position of need heading into the draft. Simply put, Koppen needs to be replaced ASAP. But really, we have so many picks in the first three rounds that I would prefer to draft both, if possible. We also have to consider what our needs at OLB look like, now that Cunningham, Crable, and Ninkovich appear to be regular contributors.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  11. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    That the last two games, has held their opponents to ~2.0 YPC on the ground.

    Methinks you underestimate the athleticism of one Vince Wilfork.
  12. Tasco

    Tasco Rookie

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    How about Wilfork permanently to DE and with next year Brace to NT?!

    Are there any stud NT prospects in the next draft?

    What a line we would've had if we drafted Cody...
  13. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    I'm glad we didn't draft Cody, since the players we got at those spots are better.
  14. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    The Pats took Cunningham instead of Cody, and Cody has played very sparingly so far -- not even active for every game. It's a tough decision to criticize at this point.
  15. reamer

    reamer Rookie

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    Thanks for the kind words, but I'm certain you know more than I do, which is why I respect your opinion. I'm still in learning mode.

    YouTube? Boy, do I have a treat for you. :p

    Here are several of Fairley's games this year, straight from the official site of the SEC:

    SEC VIDEO > Arkansas State vs Auburn Sept 4, 2010 Full Game

    SEC VIDEO > Auburn vs Miss State Sept 9, 2010 Full Game

    SEC VIDEO > Clemson vs Auburn Sept 18, 2010 Full Game

    SEC VIDEO > South Carolina vs Auburn Sept 25, 2010 Full Game

    SEC VIDEO > Auburn vs Kentucky Oct 9, 2010 Full Game

    SEC VIDEO > Arkansas vs Auburn Oct 16, 2010 Full Game

    Games he particularly impressed me in: Mississippi State, Clemson, South Carolina, and Arkansas. Of course, the game against LSU was legendary (he won the CBS player of the game over Cam Newton, who ran for over 200 yards against LSU's highly ranked defense), but they haven't put the full game up yet. Anyway, I hope you enjoy this resource; it's really the best way I've found to review SEC prospects.

    Also, Patchick, I do agree with you that a more effective backup nosetackle would be nice. I really like the way Kyle Love plays, and he should improve next year, but he lacks the girth to be a top-shelf NT, in my opinion. What do you think of Kenrick Ellis? Massive man, with some real athleticism to his game. He intrigues me, but I don't know enough about him. I'd appreciate your feedback, O Draft Oracle. :)
  16. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    Quite possibly; but if I'm a QB and I see Wilfork at DE, then I either run a sweep wide & force him to chase,
    or I run play-action.

    I also agree with you thoughts on the OL, and Koppen in particular.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  17. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    I'm glad, too. We need more athleticism on the DL,
    and Cody may end up being no better than Brace.
  18. D-Money

    D-Money Rookie

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    We definetly need more athleticism on the DL.I am hoping some of these juniors come out so there could be more depth in the draft.
  19. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    This is exactly what I was saying in April. BB should have drafted Cody to be our NT and let Wilfork move to DE. Imagine trying to run on a DL with Wilfork (350), Cody (380) and Deaderick (300). All three are experienced in the 3-4.

    I like Deaderick more and more as he gains experience. And I love Wilfork at DE, it tilts the whole field back to the middle for the ILB's to clean up running plays.
  20. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I thought we took Gronkowski and then Baltimore took Cody in the draft.

    I really like the blocking Gronkowski has brought to our offense, but I really think Cody would have been much better for us. And we still could have traded up to grab Gronkowski. We had tons of ammunition.
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