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Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at all?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATRIOTSFANINPA, Feb 10, 2009.

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  1. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    My point of this is the rare occurance last season of how not one but two rookie Quarterbacks took thier team not only to winning records but to the playoffs when both teams were not expected to win more than just a few games last season.

    With that being said,Do you think this effects the teams that may want to go after Cassel seeing that they could possibly get another type Ryan or Flacco at a much cheaper and less trade deal in the draft than to go for Matt? or do you think that teams will still go after the assumption that a rookie QB is very unlikely to take his team far,especially if the team was not very good last year and opt for a veteran NFL QB like Cassel?.

    Ryan and Flacco are rare exceptions where a rookie at the helm of QB made the difference last season - I wonder if other teams may have this in the back of thier mind and possibly not make a huge offer if they need a QB but may think that maybe Sanchez or Stafford could be next years version of Flacco or Ryan and make an immediate positive impact?
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2009
  2. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    No.

    .......
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    I don't see this happening, for several reasons.

    First, Ryan and Flacco were the exception rather than the rule. First time ever with 2 rookie QBs leading teams to the playoffs. Very unusual to see this kind of early success. Also, both were seniors with excellent maturity. Both Stafford and Sanchez are juniors, and may take longer to develop even if they turn out to be good.

    Second, while both Ryan and Flacco had great rookie years, both were somewhat exposed in the playoffs. A team that wants to truly contend is better off with someone like Cassel.

    Third, Atlanta has paid more for Ryan than anyone will have to pay for Cassel, so there is certainly no price savings there. While Flacco's rookie contract is certainly lower, I'm not sure the difference is enough to warrant to biting on someone like Cassel with a greater certainty of success.

    Finally, while some may question whether Cassel is a "one year wonder", I think it is much more open to question whether Ryan and Flacco can sustain their hot starts. The NFL is full of sudden success stories who couldn't sustain it. Defenses have a knack for making adjustments, and I wouldn't be surprised to see either go through some growing pains. Even Rothlisberger had some low points.
  4. brdmaverick

    brdmaverick Rookie

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    I think the original poster does bring up a very good point.

    Until this past year, the trend really had been that rookie quarterbacks don't bring enough to the table to lead a team to the playoffs. The lone exception that I can recall within the last ten years is Ben Roethlisberger.

    I think the success of Ryan and Flacco does bring more credibility to incoming rookie QB's and yes, that does affect Cassel indirectly. Fortunately for Cassell, I don't think this year's class brings any 'sure thing' quarterbacks.

    I still feel that teams would rather take Cassel than try their luck at picking the next Flacco in the draft.
  5. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    Flacco didn't take or lead his team anywhere. Baltimore's punter, Sam Koch, ended with the 7th most punts in the league, 84. That's more than Kansas City (82) and St. Louis (83). Flacco's passing offense ranked 28th in yards. And despite having the best starting field position in the league, thanks to a defense that led the team to a +13 turnover ratio (3rd best), the offense was 11th in scoring. And they'd be middle of the pack in that if the defense hadn't also led the league in defensive touchdowns scored.

    The Ravens are a defensive-first team that relies on its ground game on offense. Maybe next year Flacco will be a good QB who shares the load, but this year he was a warm body. He looked so good because of the team around him, and the stiff(s) who have usually handled Ravens snaps.

    Matt Ryan had a slightly better rushing attack to work with, but his defense and starting field position weren't nearly as good. I felt he had the much better year. His stats were noticably better, and the Falcons offense only had to punt 63 times, 10th best in the league, and only 3 behind the vaunted Arizona Cardinals' offense.
  6. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    Flacco had a 90.2 rating for the final 3/4 of the season, better QB rating than most of the other QBs in the league

    I think if Kyle Boller or Troy Smith was starter for the Ravens,this team does NOT make the playoffs - Defense or no defense

    Flacco,like Ryan deserved high Kudos for how much they helped thier team go farther than anyone thought

    Can Sanchez and/or Stafford duplicate this in 2009? - VERY unlikely but not impossible either - How the other teams view this is what may make a difference of how much they really want Cassel and what they willpart with to get him or simply trust thier team in a rookie like Atlanta and Baltimore did
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2009
  7. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    Fine, give Flacco kudos. For a rookie QB he was very good. But don't equate mediocrity with excellence or leadership. Ryan, in some sense, lead his team somewhere. Flacco rode. They had two very different seasons.
  8. PATRIOTSFANINPA

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a


    Both are still unproven but another good campaign in their Sophomore seasons may prove it was not a fluke in year one ... of course both may stink too,we will see
  9. Box_O_Rocks

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    Some? :rofl:
  10. SeymourTrophies

    SeymourTrophies Rookie

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    Flacco really wasn't all that good IMO. He had atrocious numbers in the playoffs, and most of his success came from play fakes. Both Qbs also had running games that set up them to pass. Cassel was pass first. I realize he has Welker and Moss, but you still have to get them the ball.
  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    Fourth: Matt Cassel had a better season than either of them.
  12. stinkypete

    stinkypete Rookie

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    To answer the question, look at a list of quarterbacks in the past decade who had noteworthy rookie years...

    Matt Ryan
    Joe Flacco
    Vince Young
    Ben Roethlisburger

    Can anyone name another?
  13. Frezo

    Frezo Rookie

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    The odds of a rookie QB contributing to taking a team to the playoffs two years in a row, especially considering this year's top two are juniors, are smaller than the area of a thong that's touching a woman's body.

    Be the thong...
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  14. BradyBranch39

    BradyBranch39 Rookie

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    No. Stafford is no Ryan/Flacco. I'd rather have Henne, actually. And Sanchez seems to be falling... probably wrongly.
  15. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    I still think Sanchez could go to the Lions at #1 if he has a strong showing at the combine - Carroll's boys always get respect
  16. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    Theres a big difference between these two though: Flacco was very good for a rookie. Ryan was very good, period. If Flacco is fully developed at this point, hes still a bust. If Ryan is fully developed, hes already in the top half of the NFL.
  17. Synovia

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    I wouldn't call Young's rookie year good. Despite the fact that he (undeservedly) won ROY.

    Cutler was pretty impressive his rookie year, despite only 5 starts.
  18. SunnyDenmark

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    Note that QB rating (Flacco's) - is just one (small) QB statistic to consider. If you complete 8 out of 10 passes and have 1 TD pass and no picks - you are going to have a high QB rating. But how likely if you going to win many NFL games throwing so infrequently? It has been said more and more that to succeed now in the NFL - you have to throw to set up the run.

    I am pretty sure that it was mentioned during the Ravens playoff game that Raven % of run to throw was one of the highest (run %) in the league. Defense carries that team. They just need someone that is not a complete stiff at QB to not completely f@@@ it up. Flacco also has a gun of an arm so if they throw it long a few times - it keeps the opposing defence honest and not just stack the box. Also they have a very good kicker (Stover) who doesnt miss many FG's. He was good as a rook, but not great and he was a senior who started many games. Sanchez can't claim that.

    Teams that need a QB upgrade can only choose from Sanchez, Stafford, and a mediocre FA class of old vets and JAGS. They cant choose Flacco or Ryan so that does'nt do those teams much good (should of , could of). Those teams can only choose now between Cassel or Sanchez / Stafford.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  19. PATRIOTSFANINPA

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a


    How are you so sure that Cassel would be better than a team than going after a seasoned Vet QB like Garcia?

    Cassel had a NICE 2008 season for the NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS - Thats does not neccessarily mean he will be as good for his next team,Whereas 'old' vets like Garcia have proven themselves very capable of winning over the years and with different teams. - Cassel is still a huge question mark with many teams I am sure.
  20. SunnyDenmark

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    Re: Does the success of 2008 rookie QBs Flacco & Ryan affect the value of Cassel at a

    True, if you are a team built to win it all NOW (and need upgrade at QB), then go with Garcia or Warner or maybe Collins. But I see only Minn in that situation - maybe Carolina. For most of the other 10 or so teams that need a big upgrade at QB and are at least a year or more away from SB aspirations - it seems better to get a rising star like Cassel (both salary and health wise).

    for example - just look at the Farve situation this year - his body broke down at the end which is to be expected for an older QB.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
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