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Does the Patriots OL need an Upgrade?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by VJCPatriot, Feb 8, 2008.

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  1. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    On ESPN they were talking about how the Giants DL manhandled the Pats OL... and well it was true. Do the Pats need to look to upgrade their OL? Another good athletic guard and/or tackle could truly put this OL over the top. Just watching the Pats OL get crushed in the SB was really disheartening, and the OL's performance was a big reason they didn't finish off the perfect season.
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We need an O-Line where perhaps only 1 of them makes a pro-bowl every 5 years or so.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2008
  3. Patsmaniac

    Patsmaniac Rookie

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    I dont feel that it is as needed as getting another pass rusher OLB, ILB, or DB, I think we could use an upgrade on the right side. I would not be mad if we took a OT in the first, which would obviously add depth to the line for a number of years and hopefully be a stalwart OT. I think we could use an upgrade at the guard position on the right, etc. if not a round one OT then perhaps a round two or three offensive guard. Of course it depends on the value the brain trust sees in the pick.

    Is Ryan O'C the answer at right OT? IS Nick C gonna improve? We were 18-1 so although not dire I dont mind upgrading.
  4. LurkingLinebacker

    LurkingLinebacker Rookie

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    I don't know, I felt they did very well overall over the course of the season. Sure, it couldn't hurt to pick up another lineman if not as a standard backup for all positions on the line (Hochstein style). I just think that the pass rush from the NYG was just that darn good. They are and have been, without doubt, the best pass rush in all of football for the past year or two. In many other games, Brady had ridiculous time in the pocket to pick apart the secondary. Sure, the blame lies heavily on them for the Superbowl, but remember that Spagnuolo did not go "all out" in their blitzing in the Wk. 17 game so that other playoff teams would not pick up blitzing packages. I, personally, think much of what the franchise ought to do in the offseason in terms of free agency and drafting lies in defense.

    Sure, the O-Line could not handle the G-Men's defensive front, but not many teams could. They did damn good all season, both the G-Men Front 7 and the Pats O-Line. Could it be improved? Sure, but I'm not completely sold that the O-Line needs to be Priority 1 heading into next season. It couldn't hurt, and I haven't looked at who is out there in either the draft (certainly not a first round pick for O-Line) or at FA for bolstering our Brady Bodyguards.
  5. bronk37

    bronk37 Rookie

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    I think i would like to see a stud left tackle, Light has served admiraly but he consistently needs help IE Kyle Brady + Dan Graham. Light is the least deserving of the probowl out of the 3 linemen going and it is because of the constant TE help, I think we move him to right tackle were he will be solid and draft a stud LT to protect bradys blind side.
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am good with this line of thinking and would never argue against protecting Brady. He's 31 next year and how long he lasts will depend on the beating he does or doesn't take. If Long is there or we like Clady and think either one worth a top ten pick I'd have no problem whatsoever going in that direction.
  7. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yup, we need an upgrade. Three probowlers are nowhere near enough.
  8. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not sold on either Neal or Kaczur, personally. I wouldnt mind seeing either or both of them replaced. Especially in Neal's case, I wouldn't mind seeing a little bit of extra depth for when he inevitably gets injured. O'Callaghan will be out for Kaczur's job next season, and I personally hope he takes it. Come to think of it, I'm not a huge fan of Light, either. I'm a big fan of Koppen and Mankins, though.

    Also, as far as the pro bowl argument is concerned, there is no way that Matt Light deserved that distinction. He completely lost it in the SB, and that wasn't the first time. Plus, he gets way too many false start's for my taste.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2008
  9. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Ryan outplayed Strahan in game 17 and Nick starts and gets smacked. Go figure.
    DW Toys
  10. BostonBullit

    BostonBullit Rookie

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    and for my actual reply to the question....

    I re-watched the wk17 game a couple times leading up to the SB and my one and only real concern was Light, he was consistantly getting beat all night long. Most of the time he managed to shove the guy wide of Brady at the last minute but it was enough to cause trouble. I like the guy, he has a good attitude and a sense of humor when I hear him in interviews and stuff but when you look at what guys like Shoebel, Taylor, Freeney, Osi, etc do to him it makes me think it's time for an upgrade. He does seem to own Merriman, but that's about it.

    of course the ENTIRE FRIGGIN LINE folded like an accordian for 90% of the SB, but like I said, not making my comment based on the one game
  11. stcjones

    stcjones Rookie

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    In a simple word....YES.......The more I have seen breakdown of that game (and it is not pretty......they (Giants) kept running the same blitzing packages over and over.....and no adjustments made)........Mankins got killed in there.....here's this guy that used to be a lumberjack and can skin a wild pig with his bare hands.....and he looks like Richard Simmons or Liberace out there........Kaczur.....Light.......awful.......These guys are the KEY to our offense...and against the less talented D's this year.....they gave Tom lots of protection....Against the better D's ........We struggled......Philly, Balt, Indy, Gints......guess we should have seen it coming......But yes......OL is another area where we need alot of improvement......
  12. MoLewisrocks

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    They blitzed less than a third of the time. That pressure was the result of losing 1 on 1 matchups physically and making some poor decisions mentally under duress when it came to pre snap protections/adjustments.

    They got by in week 17 when the Giants were a little shorthanded. Not every team can do what NY did, nor would they all attempt to in season. This was a one and done take a shot approach, too boot. But it finally gave the league a blueprint that worked, if you care to try to follow it.

    I would like to see us get to the point with this Oline where they can almost always stand alone allowing TE's to run patterns more often than stay in to block because they have to. I would like to see them be able to pass and run block equally well in the same game. And fairly consistently. A little less scheme/technique dependent and a little more physical talent added.

    It all starts and ends at the LOS. Investments there tend to pay long term dividends.
  13. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

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    They don't have a need to upgrade at OL right now.

    There are currently needs at WR where we use 4 WRs extensively and only Welker is a lock to return. LB where we start 4, ideally would like to have 6 starting caliber players but have only 3 currently under contract and 1 (Colvin) has a shaky cap # is a need. CB where Hobbs is really the only player we know is returning is a need.

    An OL upgrade is a definitely something that could be done this offseason if there is value in either FA or in the draft. It doesn't have to be addressed like WR, LB, and CB do.
  14. bencoateshelmet

    bencoateshelmet Rookie

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    I'm with dhamz on this one - there are more pressing needs for this team. The o-line was fine during the regular season - gave up about 20 - 22 sacks?. Sure it didn't play well during the SB but heck I think Welker was the only one that did.
  15. PatsFanSince74

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    I don't think so. i think the giants' pass rushers played out of their minds and, after going through the thread with the pics of the play-by-play protection breakdown, it sure looked like the OL needed better coaching last Sunday.
  16. MoLewisrocks

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    We currently hold 4 of the top 100 picks. Trading #7, even multiply, could net us a couple of more day one picks. We won't be drafting a WR early again any time soon...Stallworth and Washington remain signed pending other decisions at least. I don't see Bill ever drafting a LB high because it just takes too long to teach them the system. It took AD all season to get comfortable and he's an 8 year vet and a former pro bowler. He will replace his LB's with veterans in FA or maybe a RFA he fancies ala Welker, or if he hits on a diamond in the rough and coaches him up. So that leaves CB as the pressing need in this draft. But he will likely also be alert for a Ty Law or some other veteran he thinks can still play in this system while he works a draftee into the system. Remember, Hobbs came out of round 2 and was on the field in week 8-9 replacing Starks and upgrading the entire secondary. We are fairly set on DL. I think Oline is where you also spend in the draft because quality veteran linemen are becoming increasingly expensive to acquire or retain. And college talent that transitions well is a little easier to identify there than at several other positions, particularly in this system.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2008
  17. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

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    I'd be surprised to see a WR drafted before late day 2 when the primary objective is developmental players.

    That said, today Welker is the only guy we can count on for next year. While I think more than one of the contributing WRs will be back, right now it is an unknown and needs to be addressed. Moss and Gaffney are free agents. Stallworth has a major bonus issue to deal with. Chad Jackson is an unknown. Washington also has a bonus issue and like Troy Brown and Chad Jackson I think he did not catch a single pass last season.

    I would guess we bring Moss and Washington back to join Jackson and Welker and fill in the blank gets the 5th spot. I think Gaffney is the guy they would like to bring back but he will probably get better offers elsewhere and for a guy who has never made real NFL $, it will be tough to pass up. Stallworth's bonus isn't one I expect to pay and I can't see him spurning more $ elsewhere 2 times in a row.


    I really have no prediction for how BB would use the 7th overall pick since he has never been in this spot with a high pick since his first year. He hasn't picked a LB but if one were there that fit the system I don't see why he would pass. That said, the LB pool doesn't appear to be worthy of that spot in this year's draft.

    There is no question they have important questions right now with only Vrabel, Thomas, Colvin, and a bunch of guys yet to show anything under contract. Colvin's cap # is very high compared to his production and personally I would be surprised if he plays under it meaning the Pats will look to rework it. If he doesn't agree, they will cut him loose. If it isn't the draft, it will be FA but they need to address issues here.

    Who would be comfortable with Woods and Vrabel outside and Thomas and Alexander inside? This is a scheme built around play making LBs and right now there are not enough play makers under contract.

    I would point more to Wilson and Samuel jumping in from Day 1 and upgrading what we know from Patriot Reign was considered by BB to be an old, slow secondary. The point of a DB being able to be found later in the draft is one I agree with.

    No matter what anyone thinks of Samuel being an All-pro, a product of the systetm, etc. he has been our best CB and a playmaker on D. He is leaving and that big hole must be filled. So does the nickel job with Gay probably going as well.

    Do not disagree. As I said, if there is value there look for the Pats to upgrade on OL. I would say the same for DL too since the statement about obtaining quality vets is equally true.

    Back to the topic of the thread, I don't see OL as a need. I think we would all be OK going into next season with the group of OL we have. That is probable with none of the guys really being a cap issue and potential cut.

    I don't see the same comfort at WR, LB, and CB right now. The pats are likely to attempt to address nearly every spot on the roster as they always do but those are the 3 needs that must be addressed in the offseason.
  18. Alex24

    Alex24 Banned

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    I really don't think a upgrade is needed lol.
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