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Does the bitter end to 2007 have to be redeemed?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BradyManny, Jul 13, 2009.

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  1. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Just about anytime I make a post even referencing SB42 loosely, I'm reminded by how hauntingly close this team was to making extremely epic sports history, and how - a large part thanks to one lucky play - that was ripped away.

    While Brady & Belichick are together, we as Patriot fans are in a unique situation where we have a reasonable expectation of a championship caliber team every year. Some will call it greed - I disagree. As long as these two are together, a year that doesn't end in a Patriots championship is going to be a disappointment.

    Considering the bitter way in which 2007 ended, and considering how 2006 also had a strange, twisted and depressing ending [in that case, one in which fate, the refs, and the flu deprived of us a championship] does this team need to win another ring to "redeem" itself and help minimize the sting of those two losses and maximize the impact of their decade long greatness?
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  2. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I sorta agree and sorta disagree, which I suppose captures the dilemma that you're talking about.

    As a fan, I can't help but realize how lucky we are to have Brady and Belichick primarily, and also the rest of what's simply the most talented team in the NFL. When you have a championship-caliber team, it's always a bitter pill to swallow when it falls short. The better the team, the worse it feels if they don't win. In that respect, SB42 was the ultimate punch in the gut, and I don't think I'll fully recover from it until/unless the Pats win another SB.

    As a rational human being, on the other hand, I look back at 2007 as an amazing accomlishment by the Patriots. They fell short of the ultimate goal, yes, but so did 30 other teams. A team wins a championship every year, but 16-0 has only happened once, 50 TDs have only been thrown once, 23 have been caught by a guy only once, and 589+ points have been scored only once. Would I trade all of that for a fourth Super Bowl? Of course, without question, but that was still a remarkable season to watch and be a fan for, regardless of what happened in the SB. The farther we get past that game, the more I find I'm able to look back on that season fondly.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  3. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Perhaps, but that's for the historians to decide. While you're writing history, focus on the things you can control and let those youngsters picking your bones over later screw up at their own pace.

    Now when's Training Camp start again? (Don't answer, too long!)
  4. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Yes, very true, in one sense. The game itself will sting forever likely, but the season was as great an accomplishment as this team has made. It might be one of the most amazing accomplishments I've seen in all of sports in spite of the ending.

    That said, doesn't it piss you off when people are having the "Best of the Decade" discussion, and 2007 doesn't even enter the discussion b/c it didn't end in a championship? One more ring would make that all go away.
  5. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Well, training camp is too long away...thus I have to do my best ESPN-impression and play the part of historian before I should...
  6. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Right, we don't have the violent smilies appropriate for my response to your Schlereth impersonation. :enranged:
  7. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    nope......does not need to be redeemed.....just go out and play football.........
  8. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah it does, but at the end of the day the result is the same. I look at it this way:

    If championships are the only thing that matters, then the "Team of the Decade" debate is simple: Patriots won the most SBs.

    If championships aren't the only thing that matter, and non-championship seasons are rightly considered, then you have the Pats' 2007 16-0 record-breaking season to make it even more of a slam-dunk.

    Either way, it's the Patriots, so I don't really care how people arrive at it. FWIW, though, I think common sense dictates that while championships are by far the most important factor, other points must be evaluated as well.
  9. TrueBeliever

    TrueBeliever Rookie

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    It would definitely help me forget 2007 if we won it all this year, but even if we were to go 19-0, there'd still be part of me saying, "But we could have done it TWICE!"

    I think a lot of Pats fans feel there was unfinished business at the end of 2007-08, and with the 2008-09 season having gone down the tubes just minutes into the first game, a lot of us are still waiting to see if there's any chance of catching lightning in a bottle again.
  10. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    In some ways, the depressing losses the Pats have faced will have been worth it if we get another ring. I think the casual fan around here was getting a little too used to things going our way - and granted, I understand the high expectations, but the team wasn't getting appreciated enough. I was at the last SB parade, and it paled in comparison to the previous ones.

    Up until SB42, the most crushing defeat as a sports fan for me was the 03 ALCS game 7 loss to the Yankees. Given the Sox turned around and won the next season, I feel absolutely no remorse over the outcome of that game. In a way, it made what happened the ensuing season more special.

    If the Pats went 19-0, it would be the hugest F-You to the league given they've come up short once. But even a SB ring would help put 18-1 in a different light.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  11. PatsBoy12

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    I said this very thing to my roommate just days ago when we had the discussion. He hates NE but is sympathetic to what I've been going through since 2007.

    To the second part of your statement, again, you and I are on the same wavelength. Though I wouldn't quite have worded it the way you did, "gone down the tubes," I agree that there is some unfinished business and I'm willing to bet the Patriots feel the same way. I wouldn't go so far as to say they're going to go out intent on repeating anything from the past; however, I do firmly believe they will come out with a focus and a certain nastiness that we may not haven seen before. It's been said before, but I think Brady, in particular, might feel like he has something to prove and even if he's a little rusty in the early goings, I expect him to want to set the league on fire during the "back 9." I don't know, I'm just rambling now. Whatever.:p
  12. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    Yes, they need to redeem themselves. The way they came out in 2007's super bowl was pathetic! For a team to win 18 straight games and fail to seal the deal made 2007 a pointless season. All those records they set will only be known as personal achievements.
  13. Mogamedogz

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    Yes. We absolutley need this SB to lock up the "team of the decade" title and atone for '06 and '07.

    If the Steelers win it... every media outlet on the planet will do their best to make the Pats a side story of the '00's. Most of America outside of NE, hates Belichick about as much as a Far Right CC hates Obama... and that's saying something.
  14. AzPatsFan

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    Me too! But the thing that is UTTERLY astounding is that this forthcoming edition looks even Stronger, Deeper, and Faster, on both Offense and on Defense, than that 18-1 edition.

    Whether it wins a Superbowl or not, appearing in 5 out of 10 Superbowls in this decade would be amazing too.:D
  15. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm glad you put "'redeem'" in quotation marks. The Brady/Belichick Pats team "owes nothing to nobody" for all that it has accomplished. Five trips to the AFCCG, four trips to the SB and three rings in seven years is the stuff of legend. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it bring home a fourth (or fifth or sixth) Lombardi, but they already had good shots at four and five; maybe they'll defy the odds and get another. But if they don't, what they have accomplished already is beyond anything we could have imagined when BB decided to come here and not become "HC of the NYJ" at the beginning of the decade.

    As to what we might reasonably expect every year, it's no more or less than what Bob Kraft has set out as the organizational goal: that the Patriots will field a team that is competitive for the Playoffs every year. In the last eight years, the Pats have never failed to meet that goal, even in the two seasons when they didn't make the Postseason.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2009
  16. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "atone?" Give me a break. The Pats have nothing to atone for; nothing at all. And, I'd be ready to run awful fast if I said that to the face of any of our guys.
  17. PatsDparty

    PatsDparty Rookie

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    No wonder everyone thinks we are such a spoiled fan base...jeez
  18. TrueBeliever

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    Yeah but considering we went 40 years without a league title, during which other teams (Dallas, Miami) that came in at the same time or after us won multiple titles, I think we're entitled to be a little greedy. ;)
  19. PatsDparty

    PatsDparty Rookie

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    Maybe I've been lucky. I started watching football when I was 11, and that was in 1994, right when the team started to turn around.
  20. stinkypete

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    In a word, yes, but as a fan it's not so much about redeeming a loss so much as I want to see a championship every year.
  21. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    Nothing has to be redeemed per-say, but if this team doesn't win at least one more Super Bowl before #12 hangs up his cleats then I think any of the players and fans for that matter will never be able to let go of the uneasy feelings of "shoulda, coulda, woulda".
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2009
  22. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    The feelings after the SB 42 loss are just part of being a sports fan. If you support a team long enough, you are bound to get your heart ripped out on occasion. The Rams had a dying Pats team on the ropes near the end. The Panthers took a late lead and seemed to have all kinds of momentum. How do you think Cardinals' fans feel about last year?

    That sick feeling in your stomach just makes the next huge victory just that...huge. The potential for a crushing loss is what makes big wins so sweet. The 2001 season was magical because of all the frustration that came before it. The 2003 season followed the heartache of Favre gacking up the final game of the 2002 season to knock the Pats out of the playoffs on a tie-breaker (at least that could never happen again :rolleyes:).

    The 2004 season seemed almost routine by comparison. Loved every minute of it, but I felt 100% confident the Pats would take the title again.

    Remember that there have been 24 seasons since 1985. The Pats have been in 25% of the Super Bowls and participated in 50% of the playoffs (despite nearly a decade long absence) during this time. That is a pretty solid generation of football filled with amazing highs and crushing lows...which have to be taken together to get the full context of that period.

    I'll always remember the 2007 team regardless of what the Pats do this year. This year has the potential to be extra special because of what the 2007/2008 teams went through.

    And I'm just thankful the Vikings don't play an AFC playoff-contending team in Week 17 this year...
  23. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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  24. Yehoodi

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    I think a lot of the older fans don't mind being greedy. I don't at all. . .

    You weren't around when the Pats where the best thing going to make a loss out of a win, back in the 70's when we lost our rights to MNF, the '76 playoff loss, the countless games that we had to listen on the radio cause it was blackout as the stadium was not sold out, the '86 loss to the Bears, on and on

    We were many times at the celler in the division and had a few good season here and there and had tragic playoff lossess. Factor in the Red Sox and briuns failures from '72 to '01 you get the picture.

    when some one brings water to a dying man in the desert don't blame the guy if he wants to get up, cheer and enjoy the water . . .
  25. Yehoodi

    Yehoodi Rookie

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    feel the same way about SB42. For me yes it would redeem '06 and '07, both terrible looses, then to see the '08 campaign slowing make you realize we are not going to win in '08.

    for me, after having won 3 SBs in this decade and have dominted Pitt, we are the team of the decade. the only thing left as a fan is to be the best team of all time, and in that endeavor we, in my opinion, are chasing the 60's Packers. I want two more SBs, or perhaps one 19-0, and we would be past the pack. At this point I do want another SB, but as a fan I see us chasing history and I want what ever it takes to get to #1 all time . . .

    A SB would help soften the blown and 19-0 for me would eliminated the hurt of the loss . . .
  26. PatsFanSince74

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    well, i guess i qualify as an "old fan." I saw my first pats game in 1974, my first NFL game in 1960. More than anything else, seeing them through the dark days makes me grateful for what they've accomplished--beyond my wildest dreams. no, i'm not "greedy" for more. don't get me wrong; i'd love to see Brady and Belichick bring another Lombardi to Foxboro, but they have already more than delivered as far as I'm concerned.

    And, the most important point for me is that I believe that the Krafts are building a franchise that will still be delivering excellence long after BB and TB have retired and we're visiting their busts in Canton. Being greedy in the short term almost implies that it's somehow gonna be "over" when those two guys are gone.
  27. PatsDparty

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    There's a difference between cheering the water and expecting Niagra Falls to come rushing through the desert :)

    It just gets nauseating to constantly read fans worrying about team of the decade "honors" and hoping for an undefeated season.
  28. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  29. TrueBeliever

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    For the record, I've only been a Patriots fan since 1995 myself, so I'm largely in the same boat you are. The worst I've seen the Pats do in a season is 5-11 (in 2000). But I look at the Pats - like I do at all the clubs - from a historical perspective. When I first started sporting Pats gear, it was akin to being a Bengals fan. :)
  30. lurker1965

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    Yes.

    It does.
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