Does Parcells belong in the Pats HOF?

[TealSox]

Parcells' positive impact on this team was great. We might be rooting for the St. Louis Patriots without him.

Mo Lewis' impact on the New England Patriots was great.

HOF anyone?

 

[lurker1965]

Parcells, Bledsoe and Houston Antwine are up this season.

I vote NO.

I realize that he changed the direction of the franchise, but he also bailed on the team and was a distraction at the Super Bowl. He tried screwing NE out of compensation by naming himself a consultant for the Jets. There is also the Curtis Martin issue.

Futhermore, Parcells quit because he didnt want Terry Glenn. He wanted his groceries and it was rumored that Parcells wanted to select DE - Duane Clemons who was nothing special at all.

Tough Hall for Drew Bledsoe, Bill Parcells - BostonHerald.com

I have to agree. I know that says more about me than Parcells, but...

I know his sabotaging the Super Bowl is supposedly small potatoes compared to his giving the Patriots credibility, but ...

I could never get past his turn coat event. Just like I know the best American general in the revolution was Benedict Arnold but I'd be against him being on a coin or stamp.

 

[lurker1965]

Absolutely! Yes, it ended badly (it was partly Kraft's fault for that), but without Parcells there is no New England Patriots today. Without Parcells, this team may never have gone to a second Super Bowl nevermind won a first. He brought key Super Bowl components to the Patriots including Belichick, McGinest, Law, Bruschi, Troy Brown, Vinatieri, and Milloy. He turned this franchise from a joke to a legitimate contender.

Yes, he was an arse when he left, but Kraft stupidily decided to side with the moron Bobby Grier who nearly destroyed the franchise after Parcells left. But there is no denying that Parcells made a huge impact in turning this franchise around.

Without Zeke Mowatt the Patriots never hit rock bottom. Without Michael Jackson they'd still be owned by the Sullivans.

Let's put them in the Hall.

Without Benedict Arnold we lose the revolution - let's give him a posthumous medal.

Oh, incase anyone misinterprets this... I'm being sarcastic.

 

[Rob0729]

You're crediting Parcells with things that didn't begin until Kraft bought the team in 1994. And it wasn't Parcells presence that drove that decision. Kraft began laying the foundation for that in 1985 when he bought up land adjacent to the old stadium and then outbid everyone to acquire the stadium out of bankrupcy court in 1988. That purchase included the Patriots leasing of the facility, which he used as leverage against Orthwein in 1993 when Orthwein attempted to buy Kraft out of the stadium so he could move the team. Kraft might have moved earlier to buy Kiam out but he never got the chance since one of the reasons Kiam sold out to Orthwein was he was one of Kiam's creditors to whom he owed millions...

Parcells hire peaked media and non fan interest in the team. The sell out string and jump in season ticket holders to over 40K didn't commence until 1994 and the waiting lists were still several seasons away.

Yes, Kraft did lay the groundwork, but he might not have paid what it took to keep them if they were still drawing 15,000 a game. No Parcells didn't get the sell outs, but he did bring a signficant increase in ticket sales. Games started to sell out after Parcells was hired. Season ticket sales were not increasing because it was known that Orthwein was looking to sell the team and it was at least a decent chance for them to move.

But if Parcells didn't show there was a market for football here, Kraft might have decided that his $180 million or whatever he would have spent on an alternative to buy the team would have been better served at building an amusement park (rumored what Kraft was going to do with the land when he was threatening to move to CT).

Let's not totally devoid Parcell's place in history. The interest in the Pats were destroyed in New England after years of the Sullivans and Victor Kiam screwing up any good will this team had. Parcells made the team relevant again. Without that relevancy, Kraft probably wouldn't have seen the value of paying for a team that couldn't fill the stadium with four home games worth of attendance.

Parcells was THE REASON Kraft bought the team, but he was certainly A REASON and pretty big one at that.

BTW, the attendence jumped 16.2% from 1992 to 1993. That is a significant jump considering there wasn't a jump in season ticket holder due to the fact that people thought Orthwein was going to move the team to St. Louis. In fact, the fact there was an increase in ticket sales rather than a decrease is amazing since even rumors of a team moving usually turns off the fanbase.

 

[signbabybrady]

Mo Lewis' impact on the New England Patriots was great.

HOF anyone?

I wouldnt argue with anyone if they wanted to put Mo Lewis in the NEPHOF but this is coming from someone who bought a Mo Lewis Jersey to comemarate the moment when all changed.

But that is besides the point. I think it is completely different contributions and IMO Parcells is first one of the best coaches in this franchises history and had a huge role in the triumberate most notably responsible for saving the franchise. hold your grudges if you want I can understand that but I would like to think even those still holding grudges can see where he should at least be considered.

 

[Rob0729]

Mo Lewis' impact on the New England Patriots was great.

HOF anyone?

Kinda a lame response. Parcells helped to build this team to be relevant again after years of being a joke. Lewis had one hit.

BTW, I think that he (the hit) is already in the HOF and it is a significant event in Patriots history. So it should be in the HOF. Now as Mo Lewis as an inductee, you are comparing apples and oranges.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Should Parcells belong in the Pats HOF?...NO

Is Parcells the main reason why we now have 3 Super Bowls?...not directly,but perhaps he was the foundation.

Had Parcells coached another team in 1993 there was no guarantee Belichick ever would have made his way to NE 7 years later.

Double edged sword opinion.

 

[Triumph]

LOL! Perfect!


Parcells in the Pats HOF is an insult to all Patriots fans.

It sure is.

Parcells stole Curtis Martin by signing him to a contract that NE could not match.

 

[PatsDeb]

Because of the way he mailed it in for the Superbowl in 1997, I say no. I will be forever grateful for his efforts to put the team on the map, but to abandon the team in the biggest game ever, when it is so hard to get there, is inexcusable.

 

[PatsDeb]

It sure is.

Parcells stole Curtis Martin by signing him to a contract that NE could not match.

Oh, yeah. I forgot about this too. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[VI PATS]

Kraft started positioning himself to buy the team in 1985, long before Parcells was even thought about as being part of Patriots. He offered to purchase before Kiam, but Sullivans did not want to sell to him.

Parcells does not belong in Patriots HOF at all.

 

[Rob0729]

It sure is.

Parcells stole Curtis Martin by signing him to a contract that NE could not match.

I blame Bobby Grier for that, not Parcells. Grier insulted Martin by refusing to negotiate before the last year of his deal and then brag to media how great of a player personnel guy he was because he had a Pro Bowler like Curtis Martin on the roster for $300k. Don't forget the only reason Martin signed that deal was because he didn't want to play for the Patriots anymore. Otherwise, he would have given the Pats an opportunity to match it before he even signed the tender contract from the Jets.

Of all the arguments against Parcells getting into the Patriots HOF, that one is really low.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't know how 4 years, a .500 record and a 2-2 playoff record is HOF material.

Trying to make Parcells out to be more by giving him credit for what Kraft or BB did makes no sense to me.
The traitor factor, IMO, comes close to disqualifying him all by itself.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Of course Parcells belongs in the Pats HOF.

It really shouldn't even be necessary to debate. A picture perfect end to a tenure does not negate the accomplishment of turning an organization around that without him might be in St. Louis right now.

My contention is that Bledsoe, Parcells and Kraft should all go in together, though apparently no one in the organization feels that same way (I can appreciate them wanting Kraft to have the total limelight though).

But there's no question in my mind that both Bledsoe and Parcells should be in

 

[JoeSixPat]

Without Zeke Mowatt the Patriots never hit rock bottom. Without Michael Jackson they'd still be owned by the Sullivans.

Let's put them in the Hall.

Without Benedict Arnold we lose the revolution - let's give him a posthumous medal.

Oh, incase anyone misinterprets this... I'm being sarcastic.

Although I can't quite fathom a twisted logic that implies that Parcells is on par with Zeke Mowatt and Benedict Arnold, you do need to consider that if not for Parcells you'd be debating who should be elected to the St. Louis Patriots Hall of Fame.

That counts for something with a lot of folks.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Although I can't quite fathom a twisted logic that implies that Parcells is on par with Zeke Mowatt and Benedict Arnold, you do need to consider that if not for Parcells you'd be debating who should be elected to the St. Louis Patriots Hall of Fame.

That counts for something with a lot of folks.

Of course Parcells belongs in the Pats HOF.

It really shouldn't even be necessary to debate. A picture perfect end to a tenure does not negate the accomplishment of turning an organization around that without him might be in St. Louis right now.

My contention is that Bledsoe, Parcells and Kraft should all go in together, though apparently no one in the organization feels that same way (I can appreciate them wanting Kraft to have the total limelight though).

But there's no question in my mind that both Bledsoe and Parcells should be in

Orthwein's plan to relocate the franchise to St. Louis fell through. That had nothing to do with Parcells. Orthwein owned the team for just 2 years, 1992 when they went 2-14 and 1993, the year he hired Parcells to position them for sale and they went 5-11... Kraft was approved by the league as the new owner in January 1994. They went 10-6 that season. Then they backslid a little before going 11-5 and making it to the Superbowl in 1996. A year that just happened to coincide with the return to Parcell's coaching staff of big Bill's prodigal son, little Bill.

Honestly, people need to stop romanticizing Parcells role in turning this franchise around. They'd been to and lost a superbowl long before he arrived here. Did he reinvigorate interest in a franchise that was down to it's hard core fanbase? Sure. But it was mostly because of his Q rating and the way the media portrayed him. That's kind of the coaching equivalent of empty yardage stats...

The real trio who turned this franchise around did it together and their names are Kraft, Belichick and Brady in that order. None of whom the media was particularly fond of. Which just goes to show...

 

[ausbacker]

In a word no.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Orthwein's plan to relocate the franchise to St. Louis fell through. That had nothing to do with Parcells. Orthwein owned the team for just 2 years, 1992 when they went 2-14 and 1993, the year he hired Parcells to position them for sale and they went 5-11... Kraft was approved by the league as the new owner in January 1994. They went 10-6 that season. Then they backslid a little before going 11-5 and making it to the Superbowl in 1996. A year that just happened to coincide with the return to Parcell's coaching staff of big Bill's prodigal son, little Bill.

Honestly, people need to stop romanticizing Parcells role in turning this franchise around. They'd been to and lost a superbowl long before he arrived here. Did he reinvigorate interest in a franchise that was down to it's hard core fanbase? Sure. But it was mostly because of his Q rating and the way the media portrayed him. That's kind of the coaching equivalent of empty yardage stats...

The real trio who turned this franchise around did it together and their names are Kraft, Belichick and Brady in that order. None of whom the media was particularly fond of. Which just goes to show...

Do you see Kraft leveraging everything to buy the team with Rod Rust or **** McPhearson as the coach?

I don't.

So which new owner committed to keeping the team here do you envision stepping in after that. And with a Rod Rust rather than a Bill Parcells, does it even matter?

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

As much as i respect Parcells, the 1996 season was a black mark on Parcells legacy that stains his tenor with the Pats... Even though i take Brady over Bledsoe any day, that day did not come before 2001 and Bledsoe was one of the main reasons why the pats are back on the map...

 

[patfanken]

Parcells' impact goes beyond the record. Before him, the team had 15,000 people at the home games. Jim Orthwein was looking to get the team sold most likely to St. Louis owners since that is where he is from. Parcells renewed interest in the team causing sell outs and making it attractive enough for Kraft to buy the team for a record amount at the time. I think his contribution to the team is significant.

As for how he left, it was deplorable that he was negotiating during the week of the Super Bowl. That said, I think people make too much of it in a lot of ways. I don't think that distraction was the reason why he had Vinatieri kick to Desmond Howard.

Parcells' positive impact on this team was great. We might be rooting for the St. Louis Patriots without him.

First of all you don't put a guy n the Pats HOF who had one ood year. Otherwise Ray Berry should go in ahead of them. Second, Robo, get your figures straight. The Pats averaged 40-60,000 for home games (depending on the weather and who was playing), even in the bad old days. What was low was the season ticket sales which IIRC dropped down to as low as !7,000 at its worst.

Parcells was certainly a good coach, but he failed in NY with the Jets, with the Dolphins and with the Cowboys. He made a living going to teams who had been horrible for a few years before he got there, so he had some good talent when he got there from the high draft picks, then getting the most out of that talent.....then taking off just as his coaching style was became unbearable to his players.

I think he was a good coach. Was he over rated. I don't know. What I do know is that he would NEVER have been able to successfully coach a team over the long haul, like BB has done. He was definitely a turn around specialist, but he NEVER would have been able to sustain any long term success with one team.

To his credit he knew this better than anyone, and that's why he had a 5 year....or less, expiration date.

A lot of people give him credit for those turnarounds, but it isn't hard, especially if you are a good coach, to improve on 1-15,2-14 teams like he always walked into. Look at what he couldn't do with the Cowboys. That was a pretty good team he walked into and although he got them into the playoffs, it wasn't a surprise. What was a surprise was that he never won a playoff game.

NO Big Bill in the Pats HOF - Like Mo said 34-31 2-2 aren't HOF numbers