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Does our defense get the credit it deserves ON THIS BOARD?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AndyJohnson, Sep 19, 2008.

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  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I just stumbled on a good history/stat site, and it occured to me that the numbers for our defense seem an awful lot better than what the general opinion on this board is.
    Mostly, this board, imo, describes our defense something along the lines of:
    -Not dominant
    -Bend dont break
    -Not good enough to carry the team to a Championship
    -Not as good lately as it used to be
    -Above average but not much more than that

    These stats, and I used the one that matters most, indicate we have played much better defense over a long period of time that the opinion I perceive is consensus on this board indicates.
    Ranking in points allowed
    2007 4
    2006 2
    2005 17
    2004 2
    2003 1
    2002 17
    2001 6
    2000 17

    To summarize, the first year the D was average, improved enough to win the SB in 01, then regressed to average in 02. Since 2003, with one average season thrown in, out defense has been 1st, 2nd twice and 4th in the NFL.
    We may have the most dominant defense in the NFL for the last 5 years, in fact, I think there is little doubt that we do.
     
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  2. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In short not recently,it been all offense. I don't think the D has gotten its due since '03 and '04.
     
  3. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Good post. I'd say a little bit of yes and no, though, to answer your Q...

    I think our defense this year is going to be dominant and is much improved over last season - despite us having the 4th best D statistically last year. I think the defense last season had flaws - especially once Colvin went down - and its 4th in points allowed is generally misleading given the fact that the offense gave the team such big leads that opposing offenses were always playing from behind. Not an easy thing to do for teams facing us.

    Also, I don't think there really were any dominant defenses last season - at least until the Super Bowl, and unfortunately, that turned out to be our opponent. So far, this season, I like what I see from our D.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  4. JoePats

    JoePats In the Starting Line-Up

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    Regarding the 2006 defense, you have to admit they did lose a little bit of the goodwill they built up by blowing the Colts game.

    And yes, the offense did play a small part in that, but then the offense played a big part in the success of the 2007 defense.
     
  5. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    well our defense has held up well but falled apart at the wrong time twice in the postseason losses so it takes a hit a little bit.
    also our D conceptually isnt a aggressive high blitzing team like the steelers or philly so when they keep the drives going due to the bend dont break stuff its frustrating to watch sometimes. They keep them to hit FG's but this strategy has hurt us in the wrong moments as i said above - the AFCCG and SB. good red zone defense is welcome but i would prefer less red zone visits.
     
  6. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    Take a good look at the defense now and enjoy what has transpired over this decade for within 2-3 years there will be a nucleus of starting players retiring (Bruschi,Harrison,possibly Vrabel by 2010)
     
  7. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    So far so good but we are only on week 3. Too early to call.
     
  8. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Even before last year, people on this board seem to be more offensive focused. Whenever the Pats win, it is all Brady and the offense. Whenever they lose, it is always someone on offense's fault (Reche Caldwell, Josh McDaniels, etc.).

    I think last year the Pats' defensive stats were a bit misleading since the offense made opposing offenses one dimensional, but this team won two of the three Super Bowls with superior defense and ball control offense and the other one with superior defense and superior offense. What actually concerned me all year last year was that Pats overrelied on the offense for most of the year. You can overrely on a defense and not have it bite you in the arse, but trusting the offense to carry you all season is a dangerous gamble. I think the defense last year wasn't as dominant as it could be because of the offense.
     
  9. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Funny, I seem to recall the Pats basically signing an entire rookie linebacker corps this year. . . .

    Seriously, though--it's possible that the Pats could, by this time next year, have their entire linebacker corps for the next decade pretty much all set.
     
  10. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    It's certainly worth mentioing..and looking at the stats..the off years were 02 and 05...
    02 was the 4-3 year the Holsey and Martin and really not at all where it should have been...05 was the year the team started with the 2 ILBs gone..TedJ's retirement so quick REALLY put a whole monkey wrench into things..and 05 was also the year of way way too many injuries. That Bruschi returned and the team made it into the playoffs was big, although it ended in Denver in a tough game..I am looking forward to teh improvement to the D...and it is getting better..
     
  11. O.Z.O.

    O.Z.O. Practice Squad Player

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    ::::WARNING!SARCASMAPPROACHING!!!::::

    if anything, this old, tired, slow defense gets too MUCH credit.

    The only reason they ever won squat was Brady. Now, with him out, they'll be lucky to finish ahead of the Fools.
     
  12. memento

    memento On the Game Day Roster

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    i blame belichick

    he's trained us to be critical of every detail.

    anything less than no mistakes is unacceptable.
     
  13. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No offense Andy, but your comments about what others have said left me scratching my head. I believe that a MAJORITY of this board do not believe your comments nor do they advocate them.

    The Patriots defenses of 2001 and 2002 were bend/don't break. 2003 and 2004 were very dominant defenses. 2005, the Pats had major issues at ILB and the secondary. 2006 the defense was again playing bend, don't break. 2007 the defense was very good, but lack of depth kept them from being great.

    This year, it remains to be seen how good this defense is. So far, things are definitely positive.
     
  14. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I kind of agree with Dabruinz on this, BB's defense plays to schemes designed around the level and calibre of the players available to best fit the pieces together.

    Certain principles remain constant: As a player, you do "your" job, players play with a high degree of communication, and players must be prepared before they step on the field.

    Everything else from alignments to coverages to blitzes is schemed around the players available to BB. That is part of the reason why it is the same defense in priciple, but it plays differently from year to year.
     
  15. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And your point?
     
  16. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Bruschi and Rodney are replaceable at this point. Don't tell them I said that, but its true. It may be wishful thinking, but I really believe Guyton may be our starting SILB in a year or two, and Sanders and Meriweather are looking good at safety.
     
  17. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    My point is enjoy what stats you are bragging about while they last - They won't stay up forever

    The stats you mentioned are like a sale at a department store - for limited time only
     
  18. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Which stats matter?

    Well, obviously, points-per-game is important.

    Beyond that, I'd like to see:

    1. Points per opponent's drive (if your offense is chucking it down the field and scoring in two minutes flat, it stands to reason that the other team will have more drives than if they are grinding out long drives that end in field goals).

    2. Third down percentage.

    3. Points per opponent's red zone visit.

    4. Number of long plays given up (say, over 20 yards).

    What is a dominant defense? One where, when your opponent gets the ball back with time for one drive and needing a touchdown to win, you're confident that you will win the game. By those standards, I'd definitely rate the 2003 defense as dominant. Perhaps too the defense towards the end of the season in 2001 and 2004.
     
  19. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do you think before you type?

    By the way, those stats are permanent. Within a limited time only, the NFL will not go back and change the 2001-2007 stats.
    I have no clue what you are talking about with bragging or 'enjoying' stats.

    I posted the defensive stats for the last 7 years for the Patriots and asked if we underestimate their success.

    You decide to interject by hoping you can find a doom factor for the future??????
     
  20. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Actually, the long term outlook for this defense is very good. This defense is probably only going to get better over the next few seasons if we lock up Vince.
     
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