Does Brandon Merriweather have what it takes to be a Patriot?

[mcsully]

Mcsully, I think you misread...his comment wasn't about safety depth on the roster, but in the draft:
"we don't need a round one Safety because of the depth of the position this draft"

no I understood.. What I didn't do is relay what i wanted to say correctly.. I've been up since 9pm working thru the night.. trying to take breaks by reading the posts

What I mean I'm not happy with our depth and think we need 1st round talent. I would hope we could trade up for Landry (know that isn't going to happen.. Is there depth in this draft @ the safety position, yea (from what I read) but we don't have a 2nd round pick and a 3rd pick has a far less likely chance of helping us out.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

no I understood.. What I didn't do is relay what i wanted to say correctly.. I've been up since 9pm working thru the night.. trying to take breaks by reading the posts

What I mean I'm not happy with our depth and think we need 1st round talent. I would hope we could trade up for Landry (know that isn't going to happen.. Is there depth in this draft @ the safety position, yea (from what I read) but we don't have a 2nd round pick and a 3rd pick has a far less likely chance of helping us out.

I don't expect the Pats to trade up for Landry either, Carriker or Revis maybe. I can see the Pats winding up with additional first day picks as teams jockey for position in the draft and Asante gets his trade opportunity. The two Safeties with the most ballhawk points are hanging out in the late second or the third round anyway.

 

[Remix 6]

forgot to mention something about Ed Reed. Since 2004, his production has dropped. He isn't the player maker he was then. Injuries are starting to catch up to him..

no. Reed had a down 2005 year because injuries but last year he played very well..teams test him less. Peyton tested him and he got picked off what..twice?

btw do u really think that a player will or cannot bulk up? Just about every player in the draft besides maybe Calvin Johnson will bulk up more to be able to compete.

Ed Reed was around 192-195 coming out..hes now 200-205

Roy Williams was 215-219 coming out and hes 230 right now

those are a few examples. They will gain weight with the NFL Diet and Training. They will get stronger. Plus not all guys under 200 are likely to get hurt.

 

[mcsully]

Plus not all guys under 200 are likely to get hurt.

Never said all. But logic and stats reveal that the big boy safeties are the way to go..

 

[sebman2112]

Actually this is the first time I have brought this up here. But its a fact, the top safeties in the game are over 6 feet and are 210+ pounds.. Many times when a player gains weight, they lose speed and the ability to be as fluid.

Hate to hit you with the facts but a majority of the top safties (young and old) are what I'm pointing to. They are:

Michael Huff. Height: 6-0 Weight: 203
Kerry Rhodes. Position: FS Height: 6-3 Weight: 210
Ed Reed FS Height: 5-11 Weight: 200
Troy Polamalu SS Height: 5-11 Weight: 212
John Lynch. Position: FS Height: 6-2 Weight: 220
Rodney Harrison. Position: SS Height: 6-1 Weight: 220
Adrian Wilson. Position: SS Height: 6-3 Weight: 230
Brian Dawkins. Position: FS Height: 6-1 Weight: 210
Sean Taylor. Position: FS Height: 6-2 Weight: 232
Roy Williams. Position: SS Height: 6-0 Weight: 229

(yes harrison has been injured in the past two years but he's had a solid career for many years. And I feel his size 6 feet 220 pounds has been a component for him being great and having a long career)

These guys are the premium players at their position. Fact is Wilson production has gone down every year since his rookie year. Its time to make a move and maybe even kill two birds with one stone. Remember, when Wilson was coming out, he had the most pass defense's in the draft as a corner. Time to move him back and see if we can salvage his career.. If he stays at safety, his career will be cut short.

You aren't hitting me with the facts you composed a small list of Safeties, a large amount are SS's (I said FS's), and some of the better Safeties on your list are under 6'.

 

[sebman2112]

forgot to mention something about Ed Reed. Since 2004, his production has dropped. He isn't the player maker he was then. Injuries are starting to catch up to him..

Ed Reed missed some time in '05 with an injury which happens to even the biggest players. Ty Law was big for a CB, yet he had a few injuries, some he played through. Reed played all 16 games in 4 out of his 5 NFL seasons, and I doubt the injury he sustained in '05 had anything to do with his size (ankle injury). I should also mention that he played very good against the Colts in the '06 playoffs, and probably would have had two more INT's if not for Ray Ray knocking the ball out of his hands, twice.

 

[sebman2112]

Mcsully, I think you misread...his comment wasn't about safety depth on the roster, but in the draft:
"we don't need a round one Safety because of the depth of the position this draft"

Anyway, I'm with BOR that the character issues are unknowable from where I sit, I leave that to the Patriots to sort out. But assuming for the moment that they feel comfortable with that, the question remains: is he round 1 value?

I'm not convinced. Every Patriots first rounder under BB has been a prototype player for his position. Meriweather is smaller than you'd like, and not as good an athlete as many think. In part, that's a tribute to his game skills -- he's a heck of a football player, good enough to fool you into thinking he's a great athlete. (Just read all the draft reports talking about what a big, fast athlete he is! ) But the fact is that his combine and pro day numbers are not 1st-round caliber, not even close. He measures at the size and strength of a CB but the speed, quickness and leaping ability of a SS. That could limit his ceiling at the next level. A guy like that who grades out an A on football but (charitably) B- on measurables is generally not a first rounder.

Patchick the reason you don't understand the fast athlete stuff is likely because you haven't watched him play very much. Those scouting reports will tell you he has oustanding in game speed, and balance. NFLDraftscout.com said a lot of the same things I've been saying about him from the start. Also, if you watched the Senior Bowl Meriweather looked to be one step quicker than Griffin, and was all over the field. He was the best Safety at the Senior Bowl, period.

 

[Seneschal2]

Mcsully, I think you misread...his comment wasn't about safety depth on the roster, but in the draft:
"we don't need a round one Safety because of the depth of the position this draft"

I thank you patchick -- just one more reason why you mod best. And Mcsully, I also wasn't very clear in my wording.

In addition, in previous posts, I've mentioned the possibility of us drafting two Safeties. First, because the position is deep enough in this draft to even eek into day two, and there's an obvious roster concern to address both the FS and SS positions. I wouldn't suggest this if I were content with our current and future Safety situation.

One interesting note: I listened to a Gosselin interview tonight, and he talked about the Safety position having so much talent that he wouldn't be surprised to see as many as "a dozen selected in rounds 5 and 6". How's that for depth. This depth is exactly what I meant by "we don't need a round one Safety...". If there's one in the first who fits the Pats, and we have the opportunity to draft him -- we may do so. But if we pass in round one (for whatever reason), it doesn't mean we won't select one later. We can't fill all of needs in round one, and besides -- we'll draft the best value regardless.

 

[sebman2112]

I thank you patchick -- just one more reason why you mod best. And Mcsully, I also wasn't very clear in my wording.

In addition, in previous posts, I've mentioned the possibility of us drafting two Safeties. First, because the position is deep enough in this draft to even eek into day two, and there's an obvious roster concern to address both the FS and SS positions. I wouldn't suggest this if I were content with our current and future Safety situation.

One interesting note: I listened to a Gosselin interview tonight, and he talked about the Safety position having so much talent that he wouldn't be surprised to see as many as "a dozen selected in rounds 5 and 6". How's that for depth. This depth is exactly what I meant by "we don't need a round one Safety...". If there's one in the first who fits the Pats, and we have the opportunity to draft him -- we may do so. But if we pass in round one (for whatever reason), it doesn't mean we won't select one later. We can't fill all of needs in round one, and besides -- we'll draft the best value regardless.

I think they'll draft two Safeties, and have for awhile.

 

[Seneschal2]

I think they'll draft two Safeties, and have for awhile.

But of course -- that's a no-brainer.

 

[patchick]

Patchick the reason you don't understand the fast athlete stuff is likely because you haven't watched him play very much. Those scouting reports will tell you he has oustanding in game speed, and balance. NFLDraftscout.com said a lot of the same things I've been saying about him from the start. Also, if you watched the Senior Bowl Meriweather looked to be one step quicker than Griffin, and was all over the field. He was the best Safety at the Senior Bowl, period.

I don't think we're really disagreeing here. I said he looks like a better natural athlete than he is because of how he plays the game. Call it "game speed," instincts, positioning and reaction...regardless, it's a compliment. I'm sure he has the makings of a good pro. All I was questioning was his first-round status, given that the lack of top-tier athleticism could limit his upside.

Here's what I picture: Meriweather isn't selected in the first round, everyone says "aha, Goodell has teams worried about character!"...but in fact, it was the measurables that made the difference.

 

[sebman2112]

But of course -- that's a no-brainer.

You wink at me an awful lot...... and like the other times you winked at me, what I said is true.

 

[mcsully]

You aren't hitting me with the facts you composed a small list of Safeties, a large amount are SS's (I said FS's), and some of the better Safeties on your list are under 6'.

Yes they're an inch under 6 feet but their weight and frame are much bigger than Wilson.

 

[mcsully]

Ed Reed missed some time in '05 with an injury which happens to even the biggest players. Ty Law was big for a CB, yet he had a few injuries, some he played through. Reed played all 16 games in 4 out of his 5 NFL seasons, and I doubt the injury he sustained in '05 had anything to do with his size (ankle injury). I should also mention that he played very good against the Colts in the '06 playoffs, and probably would have had two more INT's if not for Ray Ray knocking the ball out of his hands, twice.

Actually Reed is a poor example on my end but I'll carry the conversation for the point of it. No you are right about him playing 16 games in 4 out of 5 seasons.> But his production has gone down during that time.

 

[Seneschal2]

You wink at me an awful lot...... and like the other times you winked at me, what I said is true.

Oh that's just a facial twitch that starts with this: and ends up like this:

 

[sebman2112]

Oh that's just a facial twitch that starts with this: and ends up like this:

You should have that looked at.

 

[Seneschal2]

You should have that looked at.

It has been. By all those who view here. :singing: