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Does Bill have a plan, or is he in "whatever" mode?

Discussion in 'The Practice Squad' started by DW Toys, Apr 4, 2014.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have come to believe that the 3 out of 4 super bowls was a combination of hitting the jackpot in terms of believing in Kid 199, superior coaching, and inspired play when it was most needed on the regular. A lot of luck in there.

    But the reason the Pats have been to 2 more super bowls and however many more AFCCGs, and have been at the top of their division almost every year since then, has everything to do with "proper allocation of financial resources."

    I fear the day Brady retires, and fear the day Belichick hangs 'em up just as much. But it might be the day the Krafts aren't the owners that we should all fear the most. With luck they'll have a long, long run. I'm not looking forward to a return to the Kiam era.

    PFnV
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  2. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    O.K. I am fine with your responses. Very fair.
    DW Toys
  3. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Argree.
    DW Toys
  4. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Thank you for your comments. Personal as usual. That is typical and should be expected. Whereas you are the best and expert at figuring out what the fan should want, and whereas you have a degree in internet Football GM school, I asked for a comment on the feelings of the offseason. Hence the word "or". To say that no one should be allowed to comment on whether the Pats did or did not make the right moves is astounding, but typical. I made suggestions about who might be available and as I hopefully eloquently explained, "in my humble opinion".

    If I have offended you and the rest of your admirers and "Stepford" flock, I am heartfully sorry. I feel (notice the word usage "I") that some boxes have not been checked. I also left enough latitude to offer us perhaps this is a Draft issue to resolve a position....Did I not say that? The other G.M.s and Coaches get paid too, so they "sometimes" beat Mr. Bill when he does not pull the trigger in time or has a half hearted offer (see Goldson or Bryant as example). I know that doesn't seem right, but it happens. The term one might use is "snookered".

    I also allowed that there was talent on the table that could be reached now or later and offered my personnel choices. If they do not match up with yours, so be it. What is your extension at Gillette so we can discuss?

    I always know I can get a rise out of some of you.

    Just to add some fuel. I said Dobson was injured and we did not know his immediate recovery time. Thompkins might be a flash in the pan because instead of getting better he got worse....Is that a fair statement? I also said Boyce was a wild card. Did you read this or just throwing stuff against the wall? If you want to tell me that there has never been a WR that is #1 sir, then Da Salute Mr. Randy Moss. La Fell=Jabar Gafney. Now there is nothing wrong with that but if all you haters want to say, DW he solves our WR issues and makes us better? I respect your opinion but beg to differ.

    A few other retorts-Daniels has been on the market for a month so the Ravens signing was not a sneak attack. Chung versus Daniels is what I suggested as far as need and money. I said Daniels was needed more. You must disagree. Daniels could have played the last few games in 2103 from his broken leg. They kept him out of the 2013 disaster. This guy has made the Pro Bowl. He is a fifty catch guy. You prefer Chung..O.K. it is your opinion.

    Connelly is one of the highest paid Guards in the NFL (please feel free to check)and has limited production. Anyone with knowledge will offer us that he is a good back up. Do you challenge that?

    Angerer had 148 tackles in 2011 before his foot (now healed) and he is only 27. How does that compare to Spikes? No contest. I will give you both are mediocre on PD. Who's is better...Hightower at MLB? Nyet! Again, I am not writing the check for the player. Just a suggestion.

    And finally....If there is anyone of the Stepford/Eloi Club that say the Jared Allen would have not made the 2014 Patriots a better ball club over Vince Wilfork coming back from a severe injury and knowing we need more pass rush, I disagree.

    Can we vote on who makes (or would have) the Patriots (on paper) a better team in 2014 Wilfork or Allen? Point is we could have had them both after Wilfork signed and we had the CAP.

    I tip my hat to you if your fan base says Wilfork sir.
    DW Toys
  5. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    These comments are accurate and fair. The Lord part was not so nice. I asked for a response if it was thought we did well so far for 2014 or was BB not playing close attention as he might have done in the past. We all slip at some point.

    You are of the school that DBs are the key to sacks. I am of the school that Pass rush leads to better and easier pass defense. I love the DB additions. I wait for pas rush............My opinion was that Allen was a misstep. Again that is my opinion.

    All those players above healthy make sense. I will be willing to bet BB still Drafts a WR. I am not sold on Dobson.....I hope I am dead wrong. I am under the impression that Amendola was a disappointment and not just of injury.

    So the question to you Ian, right now at this second, are the 2014 Patriots a better Team than 2013?
    Check off DB
    No to:
    O Line, D Line, LB as in MLB and that coverage guy Bill wants. We lost two LBs. WR (we replaced Collie with La Fell. I d rather have a healthy Collie) I think Boyce is a wild card and is Dobson going to even be ready, TE (???????), RB.

    To sit here and hope that Draft picks can come in day one and help is not realistic (17%). They need years to develop. To say that pre season Cuts can fill holes is a gamble at best. I see Trades as viable but none of us know if there are deals in the making or knowledge of such. It's speculation.
    DW Toys
  6. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Good post. DW Toys
  7. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    #17 Jersey

    All fair points, but my initial comment was more in shock that you would even think BB is in "whatever" mode. That's kind of a surprising assumption, so you'll have to forgive my reaction to your overall premise.

    I get you're not happy with the moves they made and it's ok for a difference of opinion, but in hindsight I'd have to believe even you feel making that assumption was a little over the top? :confused:
  8. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    My thread was a question. It asked if people thought that Bill had a plan (Draft? Trades, UDFA etc.) or if the Pats F.O. was being lackadaisical in some aspects. It was a fair question and reasonable thread. The posters agree he had a plan, or did not think we are firing on all cylinders. So that constitutes doom and gloom, so let's banish this thought provoking thread to practice status? Wow Ian.

    Have you not read the Threads and retorts on some of your stud posters? They start with doom and gloom and go down. I asked a question, I gave some of my reasons, I left the discussion open for other venues that make up for what in my opinion, were miss steps such as the Draft route or Trades. And I stand by my opinion that they did not get aggressive on some they should have.

    I treat all replies with respect except for the two that you and I know do not deserve any. I do love to get them going I have to admit.

    I wish you would reconsider this. It is appearing unless you don't tow the line you are an idiot. Not cool.

    Being in NE we all know too well about sheep.
    DW Toys
  9. james87654

    james87654 Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    he may be right, he may be wrong, but BB always has a plan
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  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Find it amazing that BB and his crew are termed "lackadaisical" or in "whatever mode", find it difficult to believe that this HOF coach and his inner circle are just awaiting to see what happens, i.e. roll the dice.

    Take a "long view" of how this team has been built and how we have maximized the talent available, there have been mistakes, but every team has done that. This team building stuff is an imperfect science, as as much as there are those who criticize BB, spend some time talking to an Oakland Raider Fan or a Minnesota fan.. then you come to realize the value of how this franchise is run.

    Down the road there is a team in NY who still rests on the laurels of a Superbowl that happened in 1969.... they get to sing "memories", while Rex makes promises.
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    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  11. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How can this thread still exist after the off-season signings thus far? Or was I sleeping on when the post first started? I think Revis and Browner were a considerable splash and are so considered league-wide. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think those signings happened without a fair amount of planning, jumping when value presented itself, etc. I would love to have kept Blount but hey, good luck except when he faces the Pats. But hey, it was the pre-draft offseason. This thread will be replaced by 20 threads on how bad our draft was next week.
  12. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, it is here in the Practice Squad


    For the heck of it I started to go through some of the suggestions, and for the most part they seem to ignore the reality of the Salary Cap. Per Miguel, as of April 28 the Patriots were $7,782,369 under the cap.

    DW opined that the Pats should not have signed LaFell, Chung, or perhaps should not have extended Wilfork. That would add $6,140,000 of cap dollars: $2,000,000 for LaFell, $1,040,000 for Chung (that's assuming he makes the team; it will cost the Pats only $60k if he doesn't), and $3,100,000 for Wilfork (the difference between releasing him, which would have saved $8 million, and the extension, which saved $4.9 million).

    That would hypothetically have given the Patriots $13,922,369 of cap space without those three, or $10,822,369 with Wilfork but without LaFell and Chung.

    Now for some of the suggestions, in terms of cap dollars


    Wide Receiver

    - Austin Collie would likely sign for $730k but would qualify for the vet minimum rule for salary cap purposes, which would be $570k. The suggestion was to sign Collie rather than LaFeell, plus one of the following wide receivers:

    - Andre Johnson: $11,200,000
    - Larry Fitzgerald: would cost Arizona $8,600,000 against their cap, as opposed to paying him $4,250,000 this year. That's unrealistic for the Cardinals to trade him this year.
    - Mike Williams: $1,800,000 in 2014, but next year's $5,200,000 salary is fully guaranteed; his 2015 cap figure is $6,800,000.
    - DeSean Jackson: $4,250,000 in 2014, but $9,250,000 for each of the following three seasons.


    Defensive Line

    - Jared Allen in addition to Vince Wilfork. Allen's 2014 cap number is only $3,000,000, but next year it is $12,500,00 and fully guaranteed.
    - Kamerion Wimbley: $4,500,000 in 2014 - for a player that may get a lot of snaps, but would not be penciled in as a starter.
    - If Wilfork was to be released, another player at a comparable price would have needed to have been signed to replace him.



    Linebacker

    - Pat Angerer is still available. Just speculating here, but if he was healthy wouldn't somebody have signed him? Angerer still may be a very good value/high upside guy to sign, but the downside is that you usually want your backup linebackers to play special teams - and that's probably not a good idea with his knees.


    Tight End

    - Owen Daniels: $1,000,000 - probably would have been worth it to sign him for this price, as it is not guaranteed. Maybe Daniels simply liked his chances of making the roster in Baltimore better than in Foxborough, with Ed Dickson departing and Dennis Pitta coming off surgery. Like Angerer, Daniels' injury history is a red flag.


    Offensive Line

    - No suggestions for additions, but whoever it is would presumably have cost more than Wendell ($850,000 cap number) or Connolly ($1,083,334 cap savings if released).


    Running Back

    - LaGarrette Blount - $1,375,000 in 2014, and $2,475,000 in 2015. Perhaps Blount should have been re-signed; the jury is still out on this decision.
    - Dump Ridley or Vereen - no suggestions as to who their replacements should be, but considering that Ridley's cap number is $939,750 and Vereen's is $1,101,275, I'm not sure who in free agency should have been signed to replace them. Most of the starting running backs were getting $3-4 million per year, and with the theoretical signings above (Allen, Wimbley, Jackson, etc.) I don't see how the Patriots could have fit that under the cap.


    Safety

    - Again Chung's name is brought up, but I'm not convinced that he even makes the roster. Gregory is suggested as an alternative, but his 2014 cap number was $3,683,334 - again, how does the club keep him, sign those other free agents, and remain under the salary cap?




    Bottom line to me is that while some of those suggestions would have been nice additions, I just don't see how they would have been feasible. Perhaps in some cases it could have worked for 2014, but then in 2015 there would be an unreasonably large guaranteed salary.

    There are still some second tier players I wouldn't mind seeing added - e.g., DE Will Smith, DT Kevin Williams or Ryan Pickett, , OLB O'Brien Schofield, ILB Pat Angerer, S Steve Gregory or Mike Adams, RB Michael Bush, T Will Svitek or Eric Winston, G Travelle Wharton, C David Baas, TE Dustin Keller, etc. - but there just are not enough salary cap dollars to sign a top tier free agent at every position that could use an upgrade or additional depth.
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  13. PatsFanInVa

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    As I said, we'll be well into "how badly the Pats drafted" next week, and I hope all finished with "why didn't we get Larry Fitzgerald? Didn't you know? Everybody wants to come to Mass, take half the money, and 'prove themselves' even if they're all-pro."

    That said, Wilfork's re-do was a good reminder of how cap room can be created, to an extent. What people here don't get is we can't get ALL the good players. That may look like "whatever mode" from outside, but the reality is the diametric opposite. Making choices is tougher than just writing checks, like you could do before the cap (and after, for Carmen Policy, but we won't go there.)

    JMT57, thanks for the extensive breakdown. I followed the link from the main football forum, and only just now realized that it has stayed in its former position there as a shortcut.

    On Blount: I think given his 2013, keeping for 2014 would have been a good move. Put together a season composed of what the late 2013 campaign showed us, and he's worth the nearly 3 mil in '15. If not, we can absorb the '14 hit. I think it's a matter of age combined to dedication to RBBC - getting 2000 yards out of 3 guys is way cheaper than getting it out of 1 stud. We don't look like we're switching to the "bell cow" philosophy anytime soon.

    Now watch the Pats draft a bell cow.

    On Angerer: I just want to have a guy with that name on the Pats. I have not yet decided whether it means "Anger, but more so" or "one who Angers." Either is good. But if naming were destiny, Richie Incognito would have a lower profile.

    I've become pretty casual about the off-season, as you can see, but can't resist dipping in to see what people are thinking. Keller and Daniels are both intriguing at TE - who'd have thought a year ago it would be a position of need? <sigh>

    The greatest loss on the OL can't be replaced. Of course, I mean Scar. It used to be that we wouldn't worry who we "plugged in." Now I am worried however we stock that pond. On the bright side, we've done well on OL through the draft, and I expect to again, in terms of spotting the talent. In terms of getting the most out of it... I'd love to find out that Scar's been over-emphasized as a factor in our success there, but I think I'd be fooling myself if I predicted that outcome.

    In terms of the draft, it will be, again, and as always, guided by value (as dictated by the Pats' brain trust, not a pre-draft magazine or Mel Kiper or whoever). That's just longstanding Pats methodology. You can leave a screaming "need" and get by when you have areas of strength shored up. We've got one sewn up that gives some teams fits, the QB position. We've turned CB from bottom quarter of the league to arguably elite. It depends on how it comes together - but it's a big leap if it works out as it looks on paper.

    Here's my prediction: We will have areas of weakness on opening day like every other team in the NFL. We will have fewer than most. And to Bruinz' point - cooking the dinner (teambuilding) will continue to be easily as important as buying the groceries.

    (That's today's random contribution.)
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