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Does Bill have a plan, or is he in "whatever" mode?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DW Toys, Apr 4, 2014.

  1. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I was more put off by the title of your thread than the content I think, because it's ludicrous to claim apathy on Bill's part. But that said, your response was fair, except for a few things:

    I said no such thing. I simply proposed that perhaps Bill's plan is different from yours.

    You choose to ignore the bottom of the roster, Bill does not. We made our big splashes in the secondary. There may be more coming, there may not be, but very few teams add more than 3 significant pieces through pricey free agents. The draft will, as it does almost every year, produce at least one contributing rookie. Not to mention the potential for draft day trades, camp cut signings, and the rest of FA which is still on-going.

    Not being satisfied with the what has been done so far is fine. I'm sure Bill isn't done. But nothing you've said indicates the lack of a plan, only that the plan has not seen to completion a few weeks into free agency.
     
  2. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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    The only thing that I'm not getting in BB's offseason strategy is the lack of signing any pass rushers and re-signing Wendell and Wang Chung (WTF?!?!). Other than that, I'm fine with it.

    Losing Blount stinks, but, he can be replaced.

    The lack positions will be addressed in the draft and with UDFA.
     
  3. SalemPats

    SalemPats 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    No Jersey Selected

    Wow, I think BB has a great off-season. He's done an amazing job, i'm ecstatic by the moves so far
     
  4. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

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    A lot of people don't understand how free agency works. I'll give you all a brief rundown.

    At the start of the new league year, every player that currently or will be a free agent that offseason makes their medical history, psychological profile, current organizational evaluations, and secret irrational fears available to Bill Belichick, who looks through them with his staff and with that information and game tape formulates an offseason plan he then executes.

    Selected free agents then fly to Foxboro, where they are tagged as Patriots players and given a non-negotiable contract at whatever Bill Belichick thinks they are worth.

    Once the Patriots declare this period to be completed, then free agency begins for the other 31 teams in the league.

    With your newfound knowledge of the process you can easily see how frustrating it is that each year the Patriots completely whiff on getting the best players at every position! Most frustrating of all is how sometimes players fly to Foxboro to be officially designated, and the Patriots completely forget to draw up their contract. There must be severe organizational chaos for stuff like that to happen! It makes you wonder if the Pats have any sort of plan at all.
     
  5. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    "BB doesn't take a dump without a plan" -The Hunt for Red October

    Anyone who thinks BB lacks passion for his job or football in general, is missing the boat. Unfortunately, he can not sign every single free agent out there. Denver overpaid for Talib, the Pats made him a good offer, they were just protecting themsleves against him getting injured again. I thought the counterpunch of signing Revis was amazing and something you almost never see the Pats do. They spent big money for a player outside of the organization and bascially gave him control over his future after one year (unless anyone thinks the Pats are paying him 20 million next year, anyone??). But imagine what BB can think up with a lock down corner.

    Please name a free agent (not one who has a transition tag that will easily be matched by the Browns) center out there better than Wendell? I'm not saying that Wendell is a HOFer, I'm just saying, having a guy that has already done the job, is better than having a rookie. Draft a center and see if he can win the job, but re-signing Wendell was not a bad idea. He brought Vince back a move which will pay dividends both on and off the field. The only pass rushing threats that were out there in free agency were guys well past their primes. NFL history has shown time and again that handing out high priced, guarenteed contracts to aging veterans is a recipe for salary cap diaster!


    Look at the contracts that the people you wanted BB to sign got. Free Agency is only part one of a the team building process, next comes the draft and the undrafted free agents (where BB excels), then comes scooping up those guys who can still play, after they get cut in training camp by another team.

    I wouldn't be suprised if you see BB trade off Mallet in the draft, scuttlebutt says he might even trade off Cannon. He will make draft day trades, I don't think anyone here doesn't belive that won't happen.


    In the immortal words of BB himself, "Come'on Fred, give the guy a chance"
     
  6. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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    Brian de la Puente
     
  7. Ifleninwasawizard

    Ifleninwasawizard On the Roster

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    Unless someone can show me the patriots aren't providing Mayo everything he needs for strength and conditioning, the patriots automatically get an A for the LB's. His return is arguably as important as the Revis signing.

    BB also made the right decision in just letting Spikes walk. It's time for Collins and Hightower. I figure we'll be so much nickel anyways that they will be pretty effective rotating in and out for each other. In that role they will be a hell of a lot more effective than Spikes.

    p.s. Can we step away from the cliff with the Wendell signing? The original report with the $2 million roster bonus was flummoxing. Thankfully the real number is 10 times less than that. It seems clear that the Pats are going to address that position in the draft, which is entirely reasonable.
     
  8. pats4life12

    pats4life12 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I sure he has a plan they don't pay him to be in this whatever mode. He is doing what he has to too have a good team.
     
  9. Danger Zone

    Danger Zone 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Having a plan and running a team is more than simply grabbing for the next biggest available talent on the FA market.
     
  10. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Threads like this makes me think we need a 'Dislike' button.

    Seriously? BB is in 'whatever' mode? Umm, no. He's never been like that. If anything he is an obsessed with detail, get everything right personality type. His players always comment that they feel very highly prepared before every football game for each different opponent.

    What actual information do you have makes you think he would take any different an approach towards the personnel aspect of his job?

    Do some reading please:
    Bill Belichick's preparation, mentality key to Patriots' survival - NFL.com

    "Bill likes to stay two steps ahead of the game," said former Patriots defensive lineman Ty Warren, who was on the 2008 team. "When somebody like Gronk or Vince or Amendola gets hurt, he's a big depth guy. He's got that farm-system type of mentality. He's still got somebody like Julian Edelman he's been grooming two or three years -- he's going to bring him on and let him contribute. And he makes sure the third-string, farm-system type of guys get the same type of reps the first string does.

    Warren said that when friends ask him his opinion of the Patriots' fortunes, he tells them Belichick can pull nine or 10 wins out of a season on the preparation of players alone, no matter who is out there. The business model is so effective that Warren has adopted some of its tenets -- there will not be a lot of excuses and you can't depend on people who are absent -- in his own property management business in College Station, Texas.
     
  11. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, Bill Belichick really strikes me as the kind of guy that just says **** it and randomly signs people with no plan behind it.
     
  12. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, considering that you have, continuously, shown you have next to no concept of what team building is or means, have very little idea of what the defense does, what the offense does, and What the team does, I am not surprised with your comments.

    The Pats movements have been ODD or lackadaisical. If anything, they have been very methodical. As always.

    Your ignorance is astounding. They have this kid named Aaron Dobson that they added last year. He's 6'2 or so and 200 lbs. Pretty fast. Put up the best numbers of a rookie with Brady as the QB despite missing 4 games.

    They also have another kid named Thompkins who showed fairly well last year. And a 3rd kid in Josh Boyce who seemed to be coming on before an injury knocked him out. You add them to Amendola and Edelman you you've got a corps of receivers that should get BETTER.

    Lafell can play both the Y and Z receiver positions and play all the FLEX-TE routes as well. He also blocks extremely well for a receiver. Let's not forget that he's also 6'3 so he should be a good Red Zone threat as well. But, yeah, you can show that you know nothing about him and give the Pats an "F" because you have this love fest for a position that the Pats don't have on their team. That's right. Since BB has been here, they've never had a #1 WR. He's been asked numerous times and he's said so himself. Even when Moss was here, he wasn't Brady's primary target.

    Why not Jared Allen? Gee. Maybe because they didn't want to give an aging DE that much money? You're such a hypocrite. You complain about Vince's age, but then you want Allen who is only 4 months younger than Vince. How would the team be BETTER with Allen and without Wilfork? Explain that in terms of how this team plays the 4-3 UNDER.

    Angerer is worse than Spikes when it comes to both pass coverage and run coverage. Yet you want to add him??

    Could you tell me how many Ferentz coached players the Patriots have had on their team? I'll even give you a hint. You can count them on one hand.


    Another case of you talking before you think. Did you ever stop to think that the Ravens didn't let Daniels get a chance to talk to the Patriots? Nope. You didn't.

    OH, and Daniels is coming off an injury, which is why they got him so cheap.

    Considering your ignorance on players in the NFL, I am not surprised by your ignorance of college players. Connolly isn't over-priced and he's not nearly the sieve you claim him to be. Also, Wendell's contract is such that he can be CUT without much of a hit to the Pats.

    Well, considering how you used to bash James Sanders and numerous others despite how the facts proved you wrong, I'm not surprised you consider Ridley over-rated. I liked Blount but have a strong feeling that once Talib was gone, Blount decided to not come back.

    Actually, Chung is the better special teamer. Chung is back on a deal that makes him very easy to cut during training camp if he can't outplay someone like Ebner or Tavon Wilson. However, you make it sound like the Pats over-paid for him by millions upon millions.

    If you are whining and complaining about the Pats not having done enough, then that is usually a good sign that they've done an excellent job.

    Yes, Bill Belichick has a "clandestine" plan to improve this team. That's why you don't know or cannot fathom what it is. But then, you also fail to consider so many moving parts such as salary demands, the salary cap, player attitude towards coaches, player attitude towards the game, player background, etc, that it's easy to see why you are always confused and ignorant and making such silly threads as this one.
     
  13. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    Dear God DW - please keep in mind this is a team that was one game away from advancing to a Super Bowl, and it's hard not to believe they'll be better this year.

    Answering your questions rather than just wringing my hands, here's what you need to consider:

    Acquisitions they have that they won't need to make due to guys who were lost to injuries:

    Defense:

    Vince Wilfork - He may no longer be a super star, but he's certainly not a stiff, and if he's healthy he's more than adequate inside.

    Tommy Kelly - A solid guy who paired with Wilfork again will certainly give them a good inside presence. For the first few games last season teams couldn't run on them. I forget the exact numbers, but I remember writing about it and will now have to dig them out thanks to your post.

    Jerod Mayo - He's been their leading tackler and that's because he's got great instincts and is always around the football. Often overlooked because he's such a solid player.

    Offense:

    Rob Gronkowski - Obviously he'll be back and will likely be a few steps slower until late in the season as most guys are coming back off of a knee injury. But his blocking and his mere presence still makes him better than what many other teams have.

    Danny Amendola - Anyone who has had to play through a bad groin knows that you're not as fast or as quick, regardless of how much rest you try and get during the season. A full offseason is going to do him wonders, and if we see the same guy we saw in preseason and the first regular season game through this season, it could be huge.

    Aaron Dobson - It's already been talked about how Deion Branch had a quiet first year before coming into his own the following season and there's no reason to believe the same can't happen for Dobson. He was slowed by injuries down the stretch and hopefully by camp his foot will be healed and he'll be ready to go. He's going to be better this year, I can promise you that.

    There are certainly others but I'm at work and don't have time to get too much deeper into it. But this is not a team with a bunch of stiffs and no talent. A lot of the moves they made were made with the idea that they'll have some of their own guys back next year, who are obviously pretty darn good. These short-sighted posts that lack big-picture perspective are a little puzzling, especially considering they'll likely be in the mix next January with a shot to win it all since I can't imagine they'll endure what they went through last year injury-wise. I'm sure they're also eyeing some guys in the draft who they feel will help also.

    And yes, I believe you're grossly underestimating the effect of Revis and Browner in the secondary and the trickle-down effect that was mentioned - which hits it on the head in terms of making guys like Ninkovich and Jones more effective. When you force a QB to go through more than one read and make him hold onto the ball, it creates far more opportunities including turnovers, something they did well early on before losing Vince, Kelly, Mayo, etc. and before Talib got banged up.

    But honestly, try and keep a little perspective. After all, it's April and there are still more cuts to come. Who knows? You might even actually enjoy the season. :cool:
     
  14. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ian is such a homer
     
  15. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I like Ian's homerism except for one subject, on which I am the voice of doom and will be glad to be proven wrong: Gronk may come back better and better up to a point. That point, however, will likely be sometime before the final game the Pats play (or he may make a heroic showing in said last game, but not heroic enough).

    Again, I will be glad to be proven wrong. Small sample size of years played and all that. Was it Ahman Green with the Packers who fumbled ALL THE TIME... and then didn't? These things do change, although injuries are less in the player's control.

    I'll stop short of "made of glass." I'm going with "plays so hard in the regular season that we lose him at the end." Something like that.

    But let's pull this thread back up at the end of the season and see if it held true.
     
  16. PatsChamp88

    PatsChamp88 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #75 Jersey

    Hicks uh do you mean Nicks?

    Jackson got more guaranteed money than Decker and Wallace's contract isn't even worth mentioning or comparing.

    Fitzgerald would be nice but Arizona would likely want too much in return I think.

    Blackmon makes perfect sense I mean let's trade for a guy that might not even play next season but he's a name continually mentioned on this board for some reason.

    The guy you completely failed to mention was Steve Smith if you think the F.O. "whiffed" but unfortunately signed with Baltimore his first visit.

    Well I certainly think they will be better and don't see any reason why that shouldn't hold true.
     
  17. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I find it difficult to believe Bill Belichick, a man who took an intentional safety to get the football back would go into the offseason without a good grasp on his team and what he needs to do to improve it.
     
  18. PatsChamp88

    PatsChamp88 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Wait you didn't know that they're all injured and won't play this season?
     
  19. Brady6

    Brady6 Pro Bowl Player

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    Great post Ian, I would add a few more names to the list you already have.

    Shane Vereen – He like Amendola was injured in week 1 and went on in season IR, he was productive when he returned but he was playing with a soft cast and with a full off-season to recover, I expect him to take a step forward.
    Stevan Ridley – He was on the rise after a terrific 2012 season, he fumbled in week 1 twice and he struggled with ball security all season until he was benched against the Texans in week 13. He worked with Kevin Faulk and was much more secure with the ball in the final 3-4 games he played. I expect that to continue in 2014 and he will get back on track as a 1200-1300 yard rusher.
    Josh Boyce – I really, like this kid and I think he was actually starting to come on towards the end of the season before suffering the ankle injury. Boyce was on PUP entering camp recovering from a foot injury, that put him behind Dobson and Thompkins in terms of a learning curve and it showed early on. If you look at his talent, he is a bigger, stronger Hilton or Cobb. At the very least, he will make for an existing KR.
    Armond Armstead – He was one of the players I was looking forward to seeing play the most, he is extremely talented, all those who want Tuitt to be drafted by us will really love Armstead too.

    Add to that the second and third year players like Jones, Hightower, Dennard, Ryan, Collins, and others all likely to take a step forward and this team would have been better if it did nothing at all. Instead we added the #1 UFA on the market in Revis…:D
     
  20. mmasterkillah

    mmasterkillah On the Game Day Roster

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    With an outlook and perspective like this, I hope you are a "second Cousin".

    You just don't get it, bro. If you really like the Patriots, you should read some books and educate yourself on the game of football.

    Free agency is like EBay, it tends to be a waste of resources, because in most cases, you have to value an asset more than 31 other teams... and you have to pay to show that you appreciate it... and after that, you might not get quite what you purchased.

    The highest level of sports, whether football or otherwise, is ALL about the proper allocation of financial resources.

    The more I'll type the more I'll get off-topic, but I cringe in baseball (where there is no salary cap) with some of the idiotic signings that I see where teams are using money to sign somebody... who doesn't really fit there team or help them win much more than the average player.

    Anyways, bad thread, I typed too much... but keep it up, "second cousin".
     

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