Does BB trust Josh McDaniels too much?

[SalemPats]

It seems like Josh has a bit too much influence. He pushed hard for Lloyd (rapper now) and Amendola (bust?). Last year the friction between Welker and the team was salary and also the fact that Josh barely played him in the first 3 games last season.

I feel that sometimes Josh is trying to show how smart he is with his playcalling and i'm not sure how much he 'develops' players. Anyone know how good of a 'teacher' he is?

 

[Kontradiction]

So... this thread is asking if BB trusts McDaniels too much, and one of the premises is because a guy that was signed, when the OC is not in charge of signing FA's, is a "bust" after playing out the entire year on a disattached groin?

 

[SalemPats]

you don't think he has any influence. We don't sign Lloyd/Amendola without him.

 

[Kontradiction]

you don't think he has any influence. We don't sign Lloyd/Amendola without him.

Do you have proof of this? Otherwise, why are you saying it so definitively? It's simple. The Pats needed a WR to threaten the defense outside of the numbers. Lloyd had done that up until that point and had experience in the system. They signed him. The Pats needed someone that could come in and do a little of what Welker did. Amendola had done that up until that point and had experience in the system. They signed him. Again, the OC does not sign free agents. The head coach does. Amendola would have looked like a much better signing if he didn't tear his groin.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Some fans challenge everything when our team gets blown up.

BB challenges everything we do when we lose.
BB challenges everything we do when we win.
BB pretty much leaves little to chance, but he is human.

Gotta admire BB's consistency in this matter and I don't think he's suddenly lost his touch.

 

[Tunescribe]

It seems like Josh has a bit too much influence.

I would normally agree, but aardvarks can't run multinational corporations when pea gravel roadways lined with lemon trees obscure sight lines for organized commerce.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Belichick to his credit listens to the input of his coaches in personnel decisions from draft, to FA, to trades.
Unfortunately, the offensive coordinator isn't that good at personnel. He's horrible at it. Michael Holley in his book specifically says they drafted the bust RB Laurence Maroney because the coordinator's kid brother coached Maroney in Minnesota. The Broncos then wasted a 4th rounder trading for Maroney, who quickly flamed out over there.

Look at offensive acquisitions the past two seasons, a bunch of ex-Bronco and ex-Ram players, or rookies worked out by the coordinator:

Danny Amendola
Greg Salas
Tim Tebow
Brandon Lloyd
Michael Hoomanawanui
Kenbrell Thompson
Aaron Dobson
Josh Boyce
Zach Sudfeld

One more year of bad offensive acquisitions and this offense will go downhill. Too many misses. Amendola is going to HURT the team for years to come, $29M over 5 years down the drain which is also going to make it hard to keep Edelman.

 

[Brady6]

It seems like Josh has a bit too much influence. He pushed hard for Lloyd (rapper now) and Amendola (bust?). Last year the friction between Welker and the team was salary and also the fact that Josh barely played him in the first 3 games last season.

I feel that sometimes Josh is trying to show how smart he is with his playcalling and i'm not sure how much he 'develops' players. Anyone know how good of a 'teacher' he is?

I am not a huge McDaniels fan but I don’t think he is to blame for the signings of Amendola or Lloyd.

• We needed to replace Branch in 2012 with a complementary outside receiver who we did not want to invest heavily in and Branch was the best fit on the market, there were no alternatives that we could have signed for 3 years/$12 million that would have given us more than Lloyd did; Lloyd was a stop gap because we had to commit our draft resources to the defense in 2012 and we probably would have liked it if he was able to give us something in 2013 as well to help make a smoother transition but they cut ties a bit early, we still got really solid production from the guy for about $3 million.

• Welker was leaving we knew it, there was a beef with his agent so we had to fill his void and Amendola was the next best slot receiver on the market. Our mistake was not signing Amendola it was overpaying for Amendola. I don’t know what else we could’ve done at that point Edelman was a free agent visiting teams in a walking boot and can you imagine fan reaction if we let Welker walk and didn’t sign Amendola at the very least he saved us big money on public relations.

I do agree that I would like to see McDaniels focus more on developing younger players, I don’t know if it is own insecurity, a fear of change, laziness or something else but he does like to recycle players. If I had to guess Josh got back together with his ex-girlfriends a lot back in high school/college and likely made a lot of drunken I miss you phone calls.

As far as Belichick trusting him I don’t think he has a choice, just like McDaniels is tasked with developing the players Belichick is developing the coaching staff including McDaniels and if he didn’t put trust in him he would never develop him into the coach that Belichick likely believes McDaniels can be.

I am guilty of it too but I think you attach to much to Josh and expect too much from him, the fact is if Josh was capable of being flawless he wouldn’t be working under somebody he would have his own team.

 

[Rob0729]

Belichick to his credit listens to the input of his coaches in personnel decisions from draft, to FA, to trades.
Unfortunately, the offensive coordinator isn't that good at personnel. He's horrible at it. Michael Holley in his book specifically says they drafted the bust RB Laurence Maroney because the coordinator's kid brother coached Maroney in Minnesota. The Broncos then wasted a 4th rounder trading for Maroney, who quickly flamed out over there.

Look at offensive acquisitions the past two seasons, a bunch of ex-Bronco and ex-Ram players, or rookies worked out by the coordinator:

Danny Amendola
Greg Salas
Tim Tebow
Brandon Lloyd
Michael Hoomanawanui
Kenbrell Thompson
Aaron Dobson
Josh Boyce
Zach Sudfeld

One more year of bad offensive acquisitions and this offense will go downhill. Too many misses. Amendola is going to HURT the team for years to come, $29M over 5 years down the drain which is also going to make it hard to keep Edelman.

Thank you for just cutting and pasting the same post over and over again. It saves us tons of time to not have to read your McDaniels hating posts to see if you will ever make at least one rational argument ever.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

An old saw says the most popular guy in town is the backup QB.

Apparently, the least popular guy in town is the offensive coordinator.

 

[Rob0729]

you don't think he has any influence. We don't sign Lloyd/Amendola without him.

McDaniels has only a little more experience with Amendola than Belichick does. Amendola was injured during the first game of the only season McDaniels coached for the Rams and put on IR.

As for Lloyd, his production in the system prior to coming here is well documented as a success. Virtually everyone was ecstatic when he signed here for a value contract. He was a receiver who was familiar with the system and proven productive in it. Almost everyone thought he was a perfect fit.

And now in hindsight, people are trashing McDaniels for convincing Belichick to sign an obvious turd that everyone other than McDaniels knew was going to fail here.

 

[Rob0729]

An old saw says the most popular guy in town is the backup QB.

Apparently, the least popular guy in town is the offensive coordinator.

The only times I can remember ever that people didn't hate the OC was 2004 and 2007. And even in 2007, you had NEM and maverick04 trashing McDaniels. I wasn't here in 2004, but I hear NEM still trashed Weis that year too.

 

[Tunescribe]

An old saw says the most popular guy in town is the backup QB.

Was it this guy?

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Unfortunately, the offensive coordinator isn't that good at personnel. He's horrible at it. Michael Holley in his book specifically says they drafted the bust RB Laurence Maroney because the coordinator's kid brother coached Maroney in Minnesota. The Broncos then wasted a 4th rounder trading for Maroney, who quickly flamed out over there.

If only we had guy who could evaluate talent and draft guys like Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker on our team...

Everyone has hits and misses.

 

[Rob0729]

If only we had guy who could evaluate talent and draft guys like Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker on our team...

Everyone has hits and misses.

And Maroney was an unique situation. It wasn't Josh McDaniels who recommended Maroney to Belichick. It was Ben McDaniels.

Last time I checked, Ben is coaching at Columbia. Not much chance Belichick will be using a first round pick on a player from the Ivy League anytime soon. So this mistake won't happen again.

History has shown that Belichick frequently drafts players based on recommendations of college coaches. Urban Meyers, Pat Hill, Nick Saban, Greg Schiano, and other college coaches have influenced draft picks made by Belichick.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

History has shown that Belichick frequently drafts players based on recommendations of college coaches. Urban Meyers, Pat Hill, Nick Saban, Greg Schiano, and other college coaches have influenced draft picks made by Belichick.

Among other things, Meyer gave a glowing recommendation of Jerod Mayo.

 

[captain stone]

What pisses me off is that, while the offense is flushing another PO game down the toilet,
Bill has his back turned away from the field and is constantly talking to the defense.
So yes, I would say that Bill trusts the OC more than the DC, to our detriment.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

And Maroney was an unique situation. It wasn't Josh McDaniels who recommended Maroney to Belichick. It was Ben McDaniels.

Last time I checked, Ben is coaching at Columbia. Not much chance Belichick will be using a first round pick on a player from the Ivy League anytime soon. So this mistake won't happen again.

Quoting this for its priceless humor.

So the claim is the coordinator had zero influence in that draft selection, it was just his random kid brother who somehow convinced the head coach of the New England Patriots to draft the RB that he coached in Minnesota.

And yet I'm not following how that explains why Denver then later spent (wasted) a 4th round pick on the same bust running back, who quickly flamed out.



It's all water under the bridge. The Amendola ex-Ram signing is even more killer because the cap hit is too big to do anything for a few years at least, and it's probably going to mean the team can't re-sign Edelman who has more heart in his pinky than Amendola has in his entire body.

 

[Sciz]

It's all water under the bridge. The Amendola ex-Ram signing is even more killer because the cap hit is too big to do anything for a few years at least, and it's probably going to mean the team can't re-sign Edelman who has more heart in his pinky than Amendola has in his entire body.

So you didn't watch the week 1 game?

 

[IcyPatriot]