Does BB Need To Bring In An Experienced DC To Rebuild The Defense?

[DaBruinz]

I actually think our LBs are the weakest link after the Secondary. Our LBs are terrible in coverage and Ninko is terrible at pass rushing.

We had Dom Capers. How did that work? He joined the Packers and gave them a much improved defense.
BB needs to humble himself. He is no longer the best Defensive mind. The NFL has changed.

Capers didn't do JACK while here. You seem to forget that. BB doesn't need to humble himself because BB is not the egotistical bastard that moronic fans on this site are making him out to be. Seriously people.

The Pats brought in someone last year who was supposed to be a good coach in Corwin Brown. That turned into a disaster to the point that Brown had to be fired this off-season.

BB has brought in people (Floyd Reese/Capers) and it's been mixed results. Also, why would some of these "elite" DC/OC come to the Pats if they know that there is no HC position on the Pats to be had in the near future? Or, better yet, what if they cam in, changed things and then were gone in a year to an HC job? You all would be complaining like drama queens at that.

 

[DaBruinz]

Those 'impressive rankings' mean absolute sh!t when the team gives up 61 Points in 2 games the past 2 years in the playoffs

Regular Season stats are the same as any Offseason Super Bowl proclaim ...worthless

Bad defenses will almost ALWAYS be exposed in the playoffs when the intensity picks up.

How many points were given up buy the OFFENSE (particularly Brady) playing poorly? Like fumbling the ball and throwing interceptions.

 

[Snake Eyes]

How many points were given up buy the OFFENSE (particularly Brady) playing poorly? Like fumbling the ball and throwing interceptions.

There were plenty of problems with the offense, but the defense melted down late in the game like they’ve been doing for YEARS. Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result, so what is being done different to fix our defensive issues?

 

[jarnhestur]

The problem is we have a few select defensive players that are any good. Outside of Wilfork, Mayo, McCourty, and probably Chung, the rest of them wouldn't be playing a lot for almost any other NFL team. The fact that Guyton sees any playing time shows how far the talent level has fallen.

The offense isn't that great either. Outside of Welker, the rest of the WR's are crap. Thankfully, Brady is able to hold that together, for the most part.

We don't need a new scheme, we need new players.

 

[NEP4Life]

A bit surprising, but over 57% of poll voters currently want a new DC to handle both schemes and personnel.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Personally, I'm leaning towards a DC with personnel/drafting responsibilities, who will actually draft defensive playmakers, instead of trading down and declaring draft victory because the Pats end up with 31 5th-round and 29 6th-round picks.

Of course, it's all hypothetical, making it suitable fodder for message board rumination. IRL, I doubt BB would initiate or accept any change that could be seen as a reduction in his power.

No, it's not all hypothetical, it's nonsensical since there are no DC's with personnel/drafting responsibilities in this league. You must be thinking about Madden or your Fantasy League...or you're just such a football novice you shouldn't even be posting on a football message board...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

A bit surprising, but over 57% of poll voters currently want a new DC to handle both schemes and personnel.

Which sadly says more about the intelligence or actually lack thereof of this message board than anything...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

How many points were given up buy the OFFENSE (particularly Brady) playing poorly? Like fumbling the ball and throwing interceptions.

None actually. Although the fumbles and interceptions certainly put the defense in a tight spot... While the PI calls on the other hand were certainly killers.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Should have gone all out to get Wade Phillips

The guy can't be a HC if he tried,but give him a defense and he has ALWAYS brought that defense up to new heights....a better defensive mind than either Ryan brother and up there with LaBeau

Wade doesn't run Bill's schemes. I don't know what part of this is Bill's scheme on both sides of the ball that you out of state guys in particular can't grasp... The problem is talent not scheme. Wade inherited some, as did Dom Capers in GB...

 

[Snake Eyes]

Definitely... that guy has impressed me a ton nearly every time I've watched him. Strong as a bull yet such a crisp runner. Almost the total package at WR, I'd love if we could get him. I'm not entirely sold on his character yet, but there hasn't seemed to be an issue as of late and I'm sure he could meld with this locker room (espec if some of these other guys have done it, most notably Moss).

Forking over the money to Jackson is the best way to get TFB another ring or two before he retires, while I'm concerned about Jackson's less than genius DWI moves it's easy to throw a clause in his contract stipulating he stay away from DWI issues and also hiring him a full-time driver.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Wade doesn't run Bill's schemes. I don't know what part of this is Bill's scheme on both sides of the ball that you out of state guys in particular can't grasp... The problem is talent not scheme. Wade inherited some, as did Dom Capers in GB...

The fact that Wade runs different schemes is a good thing, he brings a different mindset to the table, so long as he's capable of implementing what BB wants he should absolutely be considered for the position.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Something is obviously wrong with not only the talent but the coaching.

When Tracy White is saying that his primary responsibility is to play the run on a 3rd and Goal with 19 seconds left and the Giants not having any timeouts left, the message clearly is not getting through.

I thought Belichick was a master of situational football?? That's piss poor situational football. If you knew the situation and were aware of it, you wouldn't bite up on the play action because you'd know it's 99% that Giants are passing.

 

[Big-T]

Not only should a defensive coordinator be brought in and be allowed to run HIS scheme and not one BB wants to run, an offensive coordinator needs bringing in too.

The perfect scenario would be Spagnuolo & Norv Turner both being fired and then picked up by the Patriots. Turner isn't the best HC but a very good coordinator and Spags is just the type of defensive coordinator the team needs.

Unfortunately, I can't see BB wanting to bring either in, mainly because of how much it would cost.

As for defensive personnel, there is talent there with Carter, Haynesworth, Wilfork, Anderson, Mayo, Spikes, McCourty & Chung...it's more scheme that's the problem.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Not only should a defensive coordinator be brought in and be allowed to run HIS scheme and not one BB wants to run, an offensive coordinator needs bringing in too.

The perfect scenario would be Spagnuolo & Norv Turner both being fired and then picked up by the Patriots. Turner isn't the best HC but a very good coordinator and Spags is just the type of defensive coordinator the team needs.

Unfortunately, I can't see BB wanting to bring either in, mainly because of how much it would cost.

Bringing them in would be a cheap date, if you look at how much money is thrown at players the total increase spent with adding those 2 is peanuts compared to what they could do to upgrade the team. Not sold on Turner though.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

as we have discussed ad nauseam, BB's ego will not allow anyone like Romeo, charlie or Wade Phillips to be brought in a DC or OC. If it happens next year, most probably he may not be our HC.

We are in a serious grid lock at this moment it seems... don't know how things gonna get resolved next year

What a load of crap, and discussing it ad nauseum on a message board doesn't change that fact. BB's ego is a figment of the media's imagination because he doesn't play footsies with them or do what they opine he should.

The only egos involved in RAC and Charlie not returning here are the same one's that led them to leave in the first place. They wanted to be the guy, only they weren't good enough to be that guy. Bill wasn't going to hold on to them against their wills, and he couldn't even if he wanted to once they FINALLY got a shot at a HC gig. Ditto Mangini and Josh. And none of them wanted to come back to him with their tails between their legs as he did with Parcell's because their egos won't allow it.

He gave Dom Capers a place to regroup and repair his reputation after he got asscanned as the HC of the perrenially disappointing Houston Texans... He's the DC in GB and it's their offense that is propelling them. He has zero personnel say in GB, or RAC KC. Ted Thompson calls the shots in GB. Pioli calls the shots in KC although Haley seems to weild a lot more influence and have a lot more ego than Pioli likely anticipated he'd have to deal with. Wade may get a little more say in Houston going forward but that's only because of their failure to produce despite drafting and trading for all sorts of talent to no avail during Kubiak's tenure as a HC as well as Casserley's as a GM and whomever replaced him...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Not only should a defensive coordinator be brought in and be allowed to run HIS scheme and not one BB wants to run, an offensive coordinator needs bringing in too.

The perfect scenario would be Spagnuolo & Norv Turner both being fired and then picked up by the Patriots. Turner isn't the best HC but a very good coordinator and Spags is just the type of defensive coordinator the team needs.

Unfortunately, I can't see BB wanting to bring either in, mainly because of how much it would cost.

As for defensive personnel, there is talent there with Carter, Haynesworth, Wilfork, Anderson, Mayo, Spikes, McCourty & Chung...it's more scheme that's the problem.

Thank god you're just a message board poster... Spags had a lot of veteran talent to work with. Ain't working out so well in St. Louis. for him or his retread OC. Norv...has done such a great job with Rivers and the SD offense... Honestly, what football planet to you people exist on... Planet Madden???

 

[Snake Eyes]

What a load of crap, and discussing it ad nauseum on a message board doesn't change that fact. BB's ego is a figment of the media's imagination because he doesn't play footsies with them or do what they opine he should.

The only egos involved in RAC and Charlie not returning here are the same one's that led them to leave in the first place. They wanted to be the guy, only they weren't good enough to be that guy. Bill wasn't going to hold on to them against their wills, and he couldn't even if he wanted to once they FINALLY got a shot at a HC gig. Ditto Mangini and Josh. And none of them wanted to come back to him with their tails between their legs as he did with Parcell's because their egos won't allow it.

He gave Dom Capers a place to regroup and repair his reputation after he got asscanned as the HC of the perrenially disappointing Houston Texans... He's the DC in GB and it's their offense that is propelling them. He has zero personnel say in GB, or RAC KC. Ted Thompson calls the shots in GB. Pioli calls the shots in KC although Haley seems to weild a lot more influence and have a lot more ego than Pioli likely anticipated he'd have to deal with. Wade may get a little more say in Houston going forward but that's only because of their failure to produce despite drafting and trading for all sorts of talent to no avail during Kubiak's tenure as a HC as well as Casserley's as a GM and whomever replaced him...

How do you know this?

BB has stated that he doesnt believe in paying his coordinators well, and if someone is going to put in the house demanded of a coordinator they don't want to do it for peanuts. You claim it's ego, and it might be, but it also might simply be a matter of money.

 

[Big-T]

Thank god you're just a message board poster... Spags had a lot of veteran talent to work with. Ain't working out so well in St. Louis. for him or his retread OC. Norv...has done such a great job with Rivers and the SD offense... Honestly, what football planet to you people exist on... Planet Madden???

Spagnuolo has pretty much his entire secondary out injured, but he still gets pressure with his front 4, just like he did with the Giants. Turner has an injured Rivers playing (sternum injury caused by Andre Carter, no less) look how many points the Chargers put up when Rivers is healthy...and just think how much more they would put up if they had Brady instead.

Spags would at least get this defensive to be middle of the pack AT WORST and Turner would call a lot less bonehead plays compared to O'Brien...both are an improvement over what is already there so really I can't see what major problem you have with either being coordinators with BB there seeing over things.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If there was an option for "no, the coaching is fine, but it might be time to bring in some better talent evaluators, since losing Pioli and Dimitroff has clearly hurt", then I would have thought about selecting that. Since there wasn't that option, I chose no. The idea that Belichick, whether in scheme or coaching, is overmatched... that's ridiculous.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

How do you know this?

BB has stated that he doesnt believe in paying his coordinators well, and if someone is going to put in the house demanded of a coordinator they don't want to do it for peanuts. You claim it's ego, and it might be, but it also might simply be a matter of money.

When did Bill say that?? LOL RAC and Charlie and Mangenius and Josh all left because they had egos and aspirations and wanted to be HC's and they didn't come back because they all still need to prove they were more than just guys who functioned successfully in Bill's shadow. I'm sure Charlie wishes he had chosen to go somewhere other than KC... And RAC may be feeling about the same way. Mangini would likely work for anyone but coaching is a fraternity and nobody wants to employ a backstabber. Josh may well be looking for work again soon. But then there were lots of people who blamed him for everything that went wrong when he was the OC here...I call that the NEM syndrome...he didn't care for Charlie, either... None of them had the temperement to be NFL HC's. Or in Charlie's case a HC period. Neither did one of Bill's most famous protogees, Nick Saban. But that doesn't mean they have the temperement to be a coordinator in his system, or to remain an assistant in his shadow, either. Dante is one of the few who does, and he remains for that reason. The rest have met with at best what you could call mixed success since leaving, kind of like the players who do, too.

Money, ego, it's all part and parcel of why Bill prefers to train his own staff, which is what he did with all of the above except Dante. Eventually they move on. He doesn't mind as long as they paid their dues, and all but Mangini in his opinion had. He believes that if people are not happy doing their job they eventually don't do it as well as they could so he won't retain them against their will. He also believes that when that happens you/they stunt the growth of those coming up behind them. We actually lost some coaching and FO talent over the first 5 years here because there was nowhere for them to go and no way for them to advance here and they were impatient for advancement (Daboll and Ryan were behind Josh and Mangini who were behind Charlie and RAC...Dimetroff was behind Pioli who in a way was behind Bill...). The great thing about Bill is he's not afraid of that because he created the system and as long as he has his core support staff (Ernie and a handful of close assistants) he can groom others to teach and run it. If one guy leaves the next in line steps up, just like on the field. He doesn't have to deal with changing schemes and retraining personnel or retooling rosters unless he chooses to.

Few HC's or GM's have that luxury because they don't have a grasp of the entire operation remotely equal to his. Pioli and Dimetroff can't coach. Josh and Mangini and RAC couldn't handle personnel or or manage cap. Bill can do or teach it all and is more than willing to delegate responsibilities to those who have proven worthy of the task or earned his trust. He's been reluctant to confir titles of late but I think that's because guys haven't proven to him they are ready. That doesn't mean you go out and find some failed retread with a name your fanbase is familiar with and let him take a shot at replacing them and screwing the pooch entirely. He's not insecure like this fanbase and media and he continues to have the courage of his convictions born out by 35 years of NFL experience. Which has served this franchise pretty damn well whether an entitled fan base it has spawned grasps that or not. Does he need to tweek his value formula a little, yeah. But he's not going to abandon it's discipline entirely to placate the fantasy crazed peanut gallery.