Does anyone think Tom is underrated when compared to Peyton Manning?

[ScottieC]

I know some of you Pats fans have a hard time understanding the individual vs. Team concept of winning in SB's, and since several of those records you posted were team records that every member of the Pats that year hold as well let me show you some more info

Manning
* Most seasons with at least 4,000 passing yards (1999–2004, 2006–2007): 8[151]
* Most consecutive seasons with at least 4,000 passing yards (1999–2004): 6[4]
* Most consecutive seasons with at least 25 touchdown passes (1998–2007; current): 10[151]
* Most games with a perfect passer rating (career): 4 (includes 1 playoff game)[97]
* Most consecutive games started to open a career by a quarterback (current): 160[152]
* Highest passer rating (season, 2004): 121.1[153]
* Most consecutive games with at least 2 touchdown passes: 13 (games 1–13, 2004)[154]
* Most consecutive games with at least 4 touchdown passes: 5 (games 7–11, 2004)[153]
* Most games with at least 4 touchdown passes (season, 2004): 6 (tied with 1984 Marino)[153]

Position on passing statistics leaderboards

Manning is currently on pace to break the career records in every major statistical category for a quarterback, including most career passing touchdowns, most career completions, and most career passing yards.[162] Manning is currently ranked in the top ten in all of these categories:

* Touchdown Passes: 306 (4th)[163]
* Passes Completed: 3,468 (8th)[164]
* Passing Yards: 41,626 (9th)[165]
* Passer Rating: 94.7 (2nd)[166]
* Passing Yards per Game: 260.2 (1st)[167]
* Completion Percentage: 64.2% (4th)[168]

Nice use of Wikipedia.

Get Farves stats and then compare him to Manning.

I always wondered what you Indy fans talked about in bars when discussing Brady and Manning - and now you have shed some light.

Just for giggles - Put Brady's no's next to Mannings (you can do it) and remember he's played 2 LESS seasons in the NFL than Peyton and MOST IMPORTANTLY UP TO LAST YEAR HE NEVER HAD A HOF RECEIVER TO THROW TO - Unlike Manning.

Peyton is a great football player, the second best playing the game today - and that you should be proud of.

 

[ScottieC]

That's true - but you don't remember the QB's who get their kickers in that position but then miss (perfect example - Jim Kelly on the Bills, wide right). Would you say Jim Kelly was a great QB for getting his team into the position to win or would you say Norwood choked? If Viniatieri misses 2-3 of those important FGs, then TB has just as many rings as Manning, if not fewer.

Right, but Adam did not miss. Revisionist history just don't work...ever.

 

[Brandon]

Listen, I hate Manning as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't want anyone other than Manning run the two minute drill in the NFL.

As for head to head, I want Brady starting over Manning.

As for a two minute drill and making the appropriate reads, I want Manning.

 

[ScottieC]

Listen, I hate Manning as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't want anyone other than Manning run the two minute drill in the NFL.

As for head to head, I want Brady starting over Manning.

As for a two minute drill and making the appropriate reads, I want Manning.

Really? Wow, I want Brady running my 2 Min drill - Dude has ice in his veins.

Why Manning over Brady in the 2 Min Drill? I gots to ask.

 

[stcjones]

Tom has obviously done much more with less other then last year, yet all the "experts" always say it's very close between them. I don't think Manning is even close, he's certainly a very good player, but he can't compared to Tom. Last November, ESPN did a comparison between them, they compared their "leadership". Some idiot said they are tie, because it's too close. WTF??? Tom never throw his temmate under the bus like Manning did. I t's just one of the thing Brady is underrated when compared to him. I think every thing Brady did is underrated when compared to Manning.

Ummmm...yes......Brady to this point is the better of the two QB's.....why you ask......Last year was the FIRST year in which Brady had TOP WR offensive weapons....which Pay-a-ton has had his WHOLE career except for last season (and we all saw how that worked out).........And most importantly, Brady has 3 SB's......to Pay-a-ton's one SB.............Pick one QB to get the job done from their own 20 with 1 minute to go and no time outs.....I would take Brady EVERY time

 

[stcjones]

Really? Wow, I want Brady running my 2 Min drill - Dude has ice in his veins.

Why Manning over Brady in the 2 Min Drill? I gots to ask.

Jeezus......Brandon must be Peyton's locker boy......cmon......Brady is one of , if not THE best operator of the TWO minute drill out there......Neither manning can hold his jock in that category....

 

[jmt57]

So let me get this straight, you quote an article after the 2004 season (with the media freshly gushing of the Pats SB victory) pre 2005 Mannings record Breaking Year, and the 06 SB title, and before 3 straight no-ring years for the patriots, to try to show Brady is a better QB

Not completely throwing out a argument but it doesn't make too much sense to quote a article before Brady and Co were outed 3 straight times in the playoffs and since Manning brought home the ring and SB MVP, that just added the ring with Mannings superior stats

A) - you didn't contend a single point brought up in that article
B) - 2004 was also the year the media was gushing over Manning's 49 TD's.
C) - 2005 both teams lose in the division playoffs. 2006 the Colts win the Super Bowl. 2007 the Patriots go 16-0 and lose in the Super Bowl. Add in the single season records that Brady broke in 2007, and at worst it's a wash.


The thread is not about Peyton Manning. The question asks 'is Brady underrated when compared to Manning'? In my opinion - and yes, I'm a Pats fan - he is underrated compared to Manning. I believe that over the course of their careers, Manning has had a better offensive line, better running backs, better receivers, and a more pass oriented offense. On top of that Brady is somehow still discounted by some as being a 'system quarteback' that benefits from a better defense - a myth that should be discounted by Sanders and friends at this point.

Both are very excellent quarterbacks, top ten of all time, and both should end up in the NFL Hall of Fame on the first ballot with no questions asked. However, in my opinion, when comparing the two - and how the media and fans in general look at them - I do believe that Brady is not given as much credit as he deserves in comparison to Manning.

 

[ScottieC]

This is another great illustration of Tommy's ability to win.

Receiving Leaders by Season (1&2 Respectivley):

2001 Troy Brown and David Patton
2002 Troy Brown and David Patton
2003 Deion Branch and Kevin Faulk
2004 David Givens and David Patton
2005 David Givens and Deion Branch
2006 Reche Caldwell and Ben Watson
2007 Welker and Moss

Yea, Tommy's just that good.

Over that SAME period of time, Manning has HAD 1 guy who was not his consistant no. 1 Receiver (Marvin, obviously), and that's Reggie Wayne in 2007.

 

[Brandon]

This is another great illustration of Tommy's ability to win.

Receiving Leaders by Season (1&2 Respectivley):

2001 Troy Brown and David Patton
2002 Troy Brown and David Patton
2003 Deion Branch and Kevin Faulk
2004 David Givens and David Patton
2005 David Givens and Deion Branch
2006 Reche Caldwell and Ben Watson
2007 Welker and Moss

Yea, Tommy's just that good.

Damn, looking at that chart, I think we should dump Moss and Welker for Justin Gage and Brandon Stokely.

 

[ScottieC]

Damn, looking at that chart, I think we should dump Moss and Welker for Justin Gage and Brandon Stokely.

:singing::singing:

 

[BradyToMoss]

Listen, I hate Manning as much as the next guy, but I wouldn't want anyone other than Manning run the two minute drill in the NFL.

As for head to head, I want Brady starting over Manning.

As for a two minute drill and making the appropriate reads, I want Manning.

Whoa, did you watch the Billy Volek playoff embarrasment of the Colts at the RCA Dome, Peyton had his chance to win it, he coughed up a fur ball similar to what he did when he handed Rosie Colvin the football in crunch time at the Referree-corrupted RCA Dome in last November's defeat of the Colts and the officials, what in the world are you talking about ? Brady has executed more late game winning drives throwing to 2cond and 3rd string wideouts, never mind a Harrison/Wayne/Stokely/Clark combo, you can't be serious. If you put Tom Brady in that Colts offense for the last 7-8 years, you are looking at not only all the stat records, you're looking at 2 more Lombardi's.

 

[BradyToMoss]

They are both very good, and as far as I am concerned they are equal. But, Tom has had the luxury of an outstanding defence every year he has been in the league. Peyton has thrown alot of picks because prior to 05 Indy was trailing in almost every game. It is sillly to try and compare QB's because they are only as good as the people around them, and that includeds the D and SP teams.

As for Brady being clutch, I think AV had alot to do with that. Tom has not been very clutch the last few years. What if Vandershank makes a couple FG's in the playoffs instead of missing them? ... Just sayin!

Pat fans love Tom, and us Colt fans love Peyton .... This rivalry is hot right now and I for one love it! Lets get the season going!!!!

This guy is a riot, he forgets to mention the wide receivers that Tom has had to work with and the weather conditions in the Northeast and he conveniently skipped over the Harrison, Wayne, cushy, cozy RCA Dome facts, oh man, give me a break with this Tom had the luxury of the Patriots defense crap.............

 

[BradyToMoss]

"The Greatest Offensives of all time were able to produce when it mattered in the SB, and were not denied a ring. "

Wow, this guy is out there isn't he?

Hey dude, the Dan Marino lead Miami Dolphins and the Jim Kelly K-Gun lead Buffalo Bills, both had fantastic, game-changing offenses and the both have gotten SHOT DOWN 5 STRAIGHT TIMES at the Big Show, get your facts straight before you speak. You are clueless.............

 

[BradyToMoss]

C'mon now ... I get sick of hearing how Tom has nobody to throw to! Brown was pro bowler, Branch was a super bowl MVP. Kevin Faulk, Patten all of these guys are very good players who have all been in the league a long time because they produce! If they sucked as bad as most on this board think then why are they still producing in the NFL?

You put Manning in these Patriot offenses up here in the bitter cold, windy, snowy Northeast with these wideouts he has had and you put Tom Brady in the RCA Dome since 2000 with Harrison, Wayne, Edgerrin James, Joseph Addai, Brandon Stokely, Dallas Clark, field turf, no wind, no rain, no nothing. I GUARANTEE YOU, GUARANTEE YOU that Tom brings home more than ONE, ONE STINKING LOMBARDI, There is no doubt in my mind. And all you Colt fans know it too............

 

[ScottieC]

They are both very good, and as far as I am concerned they are equal. But, Tom has had the luxury of an outstanding defense every year he has been in the league. Peyton has thrown alot of picks because prior to 05 Indy was trailing in almost every game. It is sillly to try and compare QB's because they are only as good as the people around them, and that includeds the D and SP teams.

As for Brady being clutch, I think AV had alot to do with that. Tom has not been very clutch the last few years. What if Vandershank makes a couple FG's in the playoffs instead of missing them? ... Just sayin!

Pat fans love Tom, and us Colt fans love Peyton .... This rivalry is hot right now and I for one love it! Lets get the season going!!!!

Not clutch in the last few years? Check a few games from last year - Try and catch the Baltimore Game or Eagles Game - Or perhaps our Season End'r in NY where he broke a couple records you may be familiar with.

If you're not able to do that, get the NFL network and check the Top 10 Clutch QB's of all time.

If you don't get the NFLN - Search, The TOP 10 Clutch QB's of ALL time in yahoo, google or whatever and report back on your results.

Goodness, this guys a riot. Vanderjack not missing? Yea, and if Tyree don't catch the ball, Asante DOES catch the ball or the Holding penalty was CALLED you would be talking about a 4 time Champion. Like I said, revisionist history just don't work......ever...ever.

 

[ScottieC]

C'mon now ... I get sick of hearing how Tom has nobody to throw to! Brown was pro bowler, Branch was a super bowl MVP. Kevin Faulk, Patten all of these guys are very good players who have all been in the league a long time because they produce! If they sucked as bad as most on this board think then why are they still producing in the NFL?

Peyton lost Marvin for most of the season and had Wayne and Clark, along with a bunch of true "no names" and his stats did not decline ... why? Because like Brady a good QB will get the ball where it is supposed to be and the reciever "regardless of who it is" is supposed to catch it!

The WR's to not make QB's like Manning and Brady great, they are great because they know what the hell they are doing.

Anyway... Brady's numbers would have been par for his career if the team did not run up the score every dam chance they had.

Now, That's a quick way to get yourself :banned:

NO ONE, other than a few Colts fans are going to say Faulk sucks. In fact, your play'n wit fire Hillbilly. again - :banned:

Run up the score!!! I love that one - What are we talking about here? Pee Wee Football? That arguement is NUTS! You wanted them to do what? Stop scoring.....this guy is awesome!

Bill B. "Hey Tommy, take it easy out there - I mean stop scoring so much. Gosh, you're going to hurt their feelings. Really, those guys are tender. Jeeze"

Tom "Yea, ok Bill. They get paid Millions of $$'s to do their job - which they are not very good at doing, obviously, so yea I'll throw a few incompletions and give them the ball back. Sorry. I'll apologize to them when I get out there."

Dude, really - call another Colts fan that has better debating skills. Yours are not so sharp. :disagreement:

 

[ScottieC]

C'mon now ... I get sick of hearing how Tom has nobody to throw to! Brown was pro bowler, Branch was a super bowl MVP. Kevin Faulk, Patten all of these guys are very good players who have all been in the league a long time because they produce! If they sucked as bad as most on this board think then why are they still producing in the NFL?

Peyton lost Marvin for most of the season and had Wayne and Clark, along with a bunch of true "no names" and his stats did not decline ... why? Because like Brady a good QB will get the ball where it is supposed to be and the reciever "regardless of who it is" is supposed to catch it!

The WR's to not make QB's like Manning and Brady great, they are great because they know what the hell they are doing.

Anyway... Brady's numbers would have been par for his career if the team did not run up the score every dam chance they had.

Now, if WR do not make QB's great......who does? The Running Backs? I need a little clarification on that one. If you are saying you don't need a HOF receiver to be great, then I agree - But your arguement does not hold water with Peyton. Marvin's a HOF receiver, probably first ballot unless he goes to jail over this gun thing - then he's in trouble.

Bring up the ole' Wikipedia and give me a QB that's won 3 or more Super Bowls with COMPLETLY different WR's as his TOP go to guy for the season.

Also -If you ever get the chance, ask Peyton if he thinks Marvin made him great.

And you know why your sick of hearing about Brady and the poptpuri of receivers he's had?? Becasue whenever people talk about his ability and greatness, that's always brought up. Take Joe Gibbs for example, you think he's a great coach by winning 3 Super Bowls with Three different QB's?? I do and so do all the football experts (look it up is you want to argue) - Same priciple with Tommy.

 

[Double G]

"The Greatest Offensives of all time were able to produce when it mattered in the SB, and were not denied a ring."

Like the Colts, the Vikings, the Cowboys, the Dolphins, the Broncos, the Bills, the Packers, etc, etc; examples of great offenses that lost in the Super Bowl.

The Colts won a Super Bowl because of defense, not offense; offense wins games, defense wins championships, but thanks for playing slick.

 

[rabthepat]

Tom might be better than Peyton but he is working his way back towards Peyton's level. Tom's performance in his last game of each playoff/SB over the past three years has made him more like Peyton Manning than Joe Montana.

2005 - Losses playoff to Denver with ill advised pass to Troy Brown in the end zone who is being covered at the time by the best corner in the game Champ Bailey. Game breaking mistake by Tom.

2006 - AFCG vs Indy has ball at the end of game but has no magic up his sleeve.

2007 - SB 42 leads team to score season low 14 points. No magic at end of game to win SB 42.


Joe Montana's is the KING of NFL playoffs. Tom no longer compares. Sorry...

 

[shmessy]

Tom might be better than Peyton but he is working his way back towards Peyton's level. Tom's performance in his last game of each playoff/SB over the past three years has made him more like Peyton Manning than Joe Montana.

2005 - Losses playoff to Denver with ill advised pass to Troy Brown in the end zone who is being covered at the time by the best corner in the game Champ Bailey. Game breaking mistake by Tom.

2006 - AFCG vs Indy has ball at the end of game but has no magic up his sleeve.

2007 - SB 42 leads team to score season low 14 points. No magic at end of game to win SB 42.


Joe Montana's is the KING of NFL playoffs. Tom no longer compares. Sorry...

Seriously, Rab, I've been getting complaint PM's from several posters here the past couple of days about you and, while I'm telling them there's nothing infractionable about your posts since the SB, lemme give you some friendly advice:

Deal with your pain, son. Seek a professional. You're a good poster with a nice history track record here, but since the "great calamity" in February, your posts look like a classic documentary on ordinary people who go round the bend.

No need to play the one note over and over and over and over. We get it, Rab, message received. It WAS a terrible disappointment, but most of us have gone on with our lives and families. For the sake of your health, take a breath and enjoy the fine summer weather. It's all good.