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Does anyone have insight into the secondary?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Ice_Ice_Brady, Sep 10, 2012.

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  1. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady In the Starting Line-Up

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    Looking for someone with a good knowledge of defensive principles to break down/ grade the play of McCourty, Arrington, Dowling, Moore, Gregory, Chung, Wilson, if possible. My guess is you'd probably need the full field film to do so, and even then, part of it is a guessing game.

    Trying to figure out if the secondary was better yesterday, or if they were just better because we forced the Titans to abandon the run/ put them into 3rd and long every time with no hope for a dump off or screen pass.

    Particularly with McCourty, it was hard to tell who he was covering, if he had safety help, etc. He got away with a PI call on the first drive and seemed to play well from my untrained eyes. It seemed like Dowling and Arrington weren't on the TV screen much, which is usually a good thing.

    Also, I realize that Locker is inexperienced, so it's difficult to really rate their play, as he threw several off-target passes to open receivers.

    Still, the secondary appeared to be much better than almost any game last year. Do you think the cornerbacks are improving, or just a matter of them not being exposed the right offensive scheme?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  2. satz

    satz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    McCourty - 64 snaps
    Kyle - 63 snaps
    Dowling - 36 snaps

    They threw at mccourty more and stayed away from Kyle. the game plan was i think was to attack the worst of the 2 CB from last year. As pats CB do not change sides they went after mccourty.


    Dowling had a PI call and had a few completion . after that he was not in a alot .he played only 1/2 snaps and in the later part they went 3 safety with him on the bench.
     
  3. olschool

    olschool Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    This question would be better after the Denver game.
     
  4. Silver Blue&Red

    Silver Blue&Red In the Starting Line-Up

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    I would really like to hear this as well. To my couch riding, Bud Lt swilling, not very experienced eyes, I didnt see a whole lot of improvement. The zone coverage just looks too far apart from the recievers. It seems like the MO is to let the reciever catch the ball, then tackle him. Maybe thats the right way. Maybe thats the "bend not break" I hear about all the time. I remember Bruschi once saying that his father always told him "play the ball, not the man" (paraphrasing).
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  5. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    McCourty didn't "get away" with a PI call. Even Phil Simms said, after review, that McCourty didn't hit the receiver until the ball had hit him (McCourty).

    The PI calls were the worst yesterday because they weren't called correctly. Such as the one on Dowling and the one on Mayo (which was actually Spikes). Spikes was within 5 yards of the O-line when Wright made the catch ( a helluva catch) and Spikes left arm was not actually touching Wright.

    Arrington was the one who was in coverage on Nate Washington's 24 yard receptions. He was trailing Washington and was out of position. Arrington was ALSO the one in coverage on Washington's TD grab. The problem here was that Arrington tried to pass Washington off to Gregory and McCourty, but there was already another Titan in each of their zones and so that let Washington get free.

    Arrington DID have a great play on the ball that led to Wilson's interception and Wilson made a heads up play to make the grab.

    McCourty had 3 PDs including the one the potential interception that he dropped. He had the one in the endzone and he had one on the sidelines.

    I think that the Corners and Safeties have improved. Some of it comes from the pressure that the front 7 was getting on Locker. Some of it better confidence and people doing their jobs. Unlike last year where Barrett, Brown and Ihedigbo weren't really up for the task at safety and it really hurt the team.
     
  6. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not sure how you can say they stayed away from Arrington when he was the one in coverage on Washington's 24 yarder and his TD. Not to mention the one that Arrington tipped up that Wilson intercepted.

    I don't believe they targeted any single CB. The Titans took what they were given.
     
  7. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Overall the secondary played well with a few hiccups. I don't get the piling on with McCourty yesterday by his haters. I thought he had a pretty solid game. He got unfairly blamed for the Cook reception up the seam when he had the outside coverage. Both Dowling and Arrington struggled a bit early, but got better. Gregory blew the TD pass to Washington, but overall played well. Wilson played great for his first game. Chung had could of breakdowns, but played solid mostly.
     
  8. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    Locker made some surprisingly good throws too. Threaded a needle on one to Cook. A couple of nice pitch and catch throws with K. Wright. It's the new NFL. The other qb is gonna make some plays. Want to limit the breakdowns. The seam pass to Cook was really the only one that bugged me.
     
  9. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I know it was the combination of Locker/Hasselbeck, but there were very few big plays given up by the secondary. Basically all the big plays happened on one drive. That seems to be an improvement in my eyes.

    The Pats did play a zone coverage keep everything in front of you coverage that does give up a lot of shorter plays.

    Here are some stats that might change your mind:

    • Pats did only give up 6.3 yards per passing play yesterday. That was the 9th best in the league yesterday. Last year the Pats were 28th with 8.1 yards per passing play.
    • The Pats were also tied for 9th in the league with fewest passing plays over 20 yards allowed with 3. Last year they were dead last in this category.
    • The Pats were 5th best in the percentage passing plays were completed for first downs with 30.2% Last year, the Pats were tied for last with 39.2%.
    That wasn't all the front seven. That is a pretty good start for the secondary. I know comparing one game vs. a whole season is a misleading stat. But the stats may indicate that the Pats' secondary was better than it's average play last year.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  10. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

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    The experts already weighed in didn't you hear? McCourty was awful F-minus, time to cut him
     
  11. satz

    satz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Can you explain this , i said titans when covered by CBs went after weaker of the 2 CB from last year performance.
     
  12. satz

    satz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    the guy was asking for what people saw on TV. is that what you saw?
     
  13. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, that isn't what you said. Here is what you said.

    First, they didn't stay away from Kyle Arrington. I gave you 3 examples off the top of my head where they went AT Arrington. So, that blows up the idea that they stayed away from him.

    Second, I said they took what was there. Which is what they did. There was no focus on any particular CB. Which, again, doesn't support the idea that they went after the weaker of the 2 CB from last year.

    Not sure what is so hard to understand. You floated the idea that they stayed away from Arrington and went after McCourty. The Titans, in fact, didn't focus on the CBs one way or the other..
     
  14. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    It's a great start Im not going to sit here and claim all world over Locker or anything but they did their job for one game and that is all that matters. The key is to keep improving on this performance so that when they do go up against elite Qbs they will compete. The passing game is so tough to defend right now that there are only a few teams in the nfl that can defend it at a some what elite level. That's where I want this defense to be.
     
  15. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'm no expert, but I sometimes play one on this forum. Thoughts so far:

    McCourty's endzone breakup at the end of the first drive was pass interference.

    Arrington's pass breakup that resulted in Tavon Wilson's interception probably should have resulted in pass interference. He impeded the receiver's path, which is why Washington had to jump lunge at the end. If their roles had been reversed, and Washington had been behind Arrington and pushed off him like that, this board would be livid.

    Tavon Wilson was probably completely out of position on that play. It appeared the Patriots were in Cover 3, Arrington obviously on the deep left, Gregory deep right, Devin McCourty right flat, and Tavon Wilson, who started in the slot, drifted backwards at the snap and Hightower slid out into the flat. It is most likely Wilson should have been in the deep middle of the field, and probably the deepest man on the field. Instead he bit on Locker's head fake on Washington's double move, which left Arrington with no help to his inside. If Washington had run a post instead of a go that would have been a touchdown.
     
  16. satz

    satz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    So you saw the following

    1)I thought mccourty was thrown at more as i saw more of him on TV. I do not have game tape. I just saw that guy more on tv.so i might be wrong.they actually throwing at kyle side and they where showing the camera on mccourty side.

    2) What do you mean they took what they where given. you mean they threw to the uncovered WR. in that case our secondary even bad as there should be no one uncovered running around. When we play the jets brady for some reason throws more at the Wilson and not revis or cromatie for some reason. You see wilson alot more on TV so using the same logic wilson is the best cb the jets have.

    3) All i said "I THINK" that they used last year tape and went after McCourtney. Again its all I THINk no proof .

    4) McCourty was being wrongly given a down for all the TE catches. he was outside and usually support the Safety post throwing... maybe he was on TV as everytime they threw at the TE and the safeties wiffed he was there to help.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  17. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    FYI Satz, Because he plays the LCB McCourty will ALWAYS be thrown at more by right handed QBs simply because its easier for them. Right handers will throw more accurately to the right than the left, just as they will more naturally roll to their right
     
  18. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The secondary has a much better chance to play better when

    1) they have sufficient quality personnel (Dowling, Gregory and Wilson are all additions for this year's secondary)

    2) the front seven plays better
     
  19. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This won't answer your question but I for one will be looking forward to the analysis of some of the fine football minds here that went ahead and signed up for Game Rewind on nfl.com, which gives access to the all-22 tape. Obviously it won't be perfect since we don't know the play calls and assignments, but there are several people here that are very, very good at re-watching and analyzing games. If I recall correctly the all-22 angle becomes available on Wednesday each week.
     
  20. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sorry, but this wasn't pass interference. McCourty did NOT touch the receiver until after the ball had already hit McCourty. As soon as the ball touches someone other than the QB, there can't be pass interference.

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap2000000059656/Locker-throws-INT-in-end-zone

    This was NOT pass interference either. Sorry. You seem to have missed the part of the game where the defender is entitled to the ball as much as the receiver. Washington initiated the contact, not Arrington. Also, not sure how you call it "Cover 3" when Arrington was in MAN coverage the entire time, running down the sideline with Washington..

    Wilson may or may not have been out of position as he was 20 yards off the LOS. But he DID see that Arrington and Washington both were going deep AND he had the heads up enough to go and trail the play and ended up putting himself in perfect position to get the ball after it hit off Arrington's facemask.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
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