TheSolderKing
In the Starting Line-Up
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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.David Givens with more speed is what I see with Price. :rocker:
Tate's numbers didn't drop off because teams focused on him more, they dropped off because NE utilized him in a completely different manner. Your adding a level of causation that isn't quite aligned with the truth.
I disagree. I think you're ignoring something obvious. I've mentioned elsewhere that Tate did have a new, expanded, role. However, that's not enough to justify the precipitous decline in his game. What you keep leaving out is that defenses didn't have to put their best players on Moss and still shade to his side.
Gotcha on the "bigger" receivers.
We aren't going to agree on Tate. The Moss effect is wholly overstated. Between Branch/Welker/Gronk/Ahern Tate was still the 3rd or 4th threat on any passing play and treated accordingly. It isn't like teams started sliding their best cover guys over to him because Randy was gone, those players moved over to Wes and Deion.
The defenders were the same, but the usage was different and the offense changed from targetting big plays to mehodical marches.
The Moss effect is not being overstated. You're acting as if bringing Branch in dropped Tate from #2 to #22 on the depth chart. It did nothing of the kind.
And what you are ignoring isn't the primary defender as much as the secondary defender.
The Giants have an excellent, veteran coach, and that didn't stop Burress. The Steelers organization is solid from top to bottom, and that didn't stop Burress.
Aside from whether or not we'd want him, would he want to come here?
He needs money, bad, and I think his first priority would be getting paid. Is BB going to open up the checkbook for him? I rather doubt it, at best I think we'd give him a league minimum deal with incentives based on production, and him not being familiar with the Pat's offense would make that less than attractive.
I bet he ends up in St. Louis, they desperately need WRs for Bradford to throw to, and apparently Plax has a good relationship with Spags.
The Pats, under Belichick, have gone after some problematic guys, whether it be on the field or off the field.
NE did that when they had a coaches gift of a locker room. BB has done everything but put up a neon sign saying, "Problem children, keep out!" in the past 2 years. Now way he takes on a guy who was a headache before he went to prison.
The Pats, under Belichick, have gone after some problematic guys, whether it be on the field or off the field. Just like Parcells and Jimmy Johnson did when they were winning Super Bowls with guys like LT and Irvin, Belichick realizes that you don't treat every player the same. I think it's one of Belichick's best traits as a coach. He knows that some guys need to be coddled (like Moss was), that he has to really get on some guys to get the most out of them, that he can let a guy coast a little during practice if that guy always shows up on game day.
I specifically said it was the same defender. You are claiming that Tate was against the 3rd or 4th CB when Moss was around and moved up afterward, causing him to flounder. I am saying that Tate was the 3rd or 4th guy before and after, it was his role that changed.
1) I stand corrected. He never looked fast to me, certainly not the speed Brandon displayed on his KO returns. But I'll take your word for it.
I'm pretty sure you're correct here. Plaxico ran a 4.56 in college CNNSI.com - 2000 NFL Draft - Steelers thrilled to nab 'playmaker' Burress at No. 8 - Saturday April 15, 2000 04:38 PM . All the Plaxico ran a 4.4 stuff that I've ever seen was published years later and by duious sources. Plus that was 11 years ago; I'm sure he's slowed down.
There's a 4.51 or 4.52 number out there for Tate but I have no idea where it comes from-since he got hurt in October of his senior year he didn't run at the combine or, according to a bunch of reports, his pro day. Maybe it's a junior year number?
NFL.com Blogs Pro Days «
[If he did run a 4.51 or a 4.52 as a senior post injury pre draft then he's probably faster than that-the draft was six months after his ACL tear.]
I've got to think Tate's faster than 4.51 given his KOR records from college and his success as a KOR in the pros (teams were just kicking away from him the last half of the year)
EDIT: I found one reliable 40 time for Tate-4.53. Its from April 2004, his junior year in high school http://texasprepextra.rivals.com/cpevent.asp?Key=1628 I'd be shocked if he hasn't improved greatly on that.
Tate has serious issues as a deep threat (positioning, hands, ability to read the ball, aggresivness getting it, ability to separate from a receiver) I really don't think raw speed is one of them.
That's not what I'm claiming.
Tate's shown very little without Moss around to give him the favorable matchups
It's up there with a "fan" written article asking "Would Terrell Owens be a better fit for the Patriots than Ochocinco?"
I would take Terrell Owens or Ochocinco or Randy Moss before bringing this guy here.
NO!
I really do want to see Larry Fitzgerald in a Pats uniform some day. Brady & Fitzgerald would be a match made in heaven!
I would take Terrell Owens or Ochocinco or Randy Moss before bringing this guy here.
NO!
I just reread "The Education of a Coach" and enjoyed it as much as the first time I read it. One of the points the author makes is that BB ultimately decided that the special treatment of LT was a mistake.
This doesn't mean that players shouldn't be handled differently; it does mean that players should be handled fairly and with the same basic standards. Note that Moss got sent home from that early morning snowstorm session just like a few other guys.
I'm not convinced that BB is setting the double-standards that you think he is.
NE did that when they had a coaches gift of a locker room. BB has done everything but put up a neon sign saying, "Problem children, keep out!" in the past 2 years. Now way he takes on a guy who was a headache before he went to prison.