Do You Want Plaxico Burress?

[PatsDeb]

Sign him at any cost. Enough of this choir boy, "solid citizen" BS that has infiltrated this team. Give me an ExCon any day. Time for the Pats to get their Gangsta On.
Plax has alot to offer: Weapons training, working inside the box...Plax has that. With Lord Dungy at his side for spritual guidance, Plax will return to All World status along side Mr Michael Vick, another vilified player caged within the system....who also was able to break free and flourish.
Plax can single handedly redefine the culture at Gillette. Enough of the QB wearing belted trench coats with flair collars. Give me double holsters...Give me bottle service on the sideline, beatches workin their thang all over the mothe effing place. Foxborough needs a reset...a natural leader who plays by his own rules, not the rules set down by the man and his moral high ground slam piece. Plax would be step one to finally getting that elusive January playoff win.

LOL. If we get Plax in the house, we'll finally be able to answer those "Is Brady Man Enough for You?" threads with a resounding "YES!" or words to that effect.

 

[Oswlek]

Does this question really need to be asked?

It's like inquiring, "would you like to have your balls crushed by this drawer?"

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Does this question really need to be asked?

It's like inquiring, "would you like to have your balls crushed by this drawer?"

It's up there with a "fan" written article asking "Would Terrell Owens be a better fit for the Patriots than Ochocinco?"

 

[BlueThunder]

This isn't a direct answer to the ridiculous thread title, however it does have something to do with receivers and not needing any IMHO...

With the addition of youngsters Vereen and Ridley, along with an exceptionally elusive Woodhead....a group of TE's that will probably the best in the NFL....the Pats rejuvinated running game should open up the passing game even more.....that is unless Branch all of a sudden got too old to catch TB's passes and Welker forgot how to get open on slants... and Tate /Price are both busto picks.....

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

A bit funny just to think about the possibility of the man that by all purposes with one catch in the back of the end zone destroyed what could have been a 19-0 season and now we talk about this same player being on OUR side and OUR team.

I am not sure the majority of Pats fans can forgive and forget that play that all but put Pats fans on the brink of suicide.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I hate Burress for the Super Bowl too, but the past is the past. What gives us the best chance of winning in 2011. Business first.

I think Burress can still be a solid contributor in the NFL. He may not have put up great stats every game, but when crunch time came, few were better than him. He had a knack for making the big play when you needed it the most.

He will be 34 and will be a few years removed from the last time he played competitively, but his skill set was never really built on speed. I think he ran close to a 4.6 forty yard dash coming out of Michigan St. He was more of a guy that used his height and body size to make big plays. He was a pretty physical receiver that went over the middle and was deadly in the red zone.

He was never a guy that would take the top off a defense like Moss. So since his game was never really built on making plays by getting behind the defense or beating DB's with quickness, I think he can still contribute because he still has his size.

Randy Moss was mostly a one dimensional deep threat who didn't have much interest in running any other routes than a fly route or a deep post, and when he was young, he didn't have to run anything but those routes because he had 4.3 speed. But he doesn't have that speed anymore and he is only getting older.

So from a skill set standpoint, I think I'd take Plaxico, especially over guys like Owens and Moss.

But the question with Plaxico has been and still is his off-field baggage. The guy always came off as lazy to me. It seemed like he would go out of his way to miss practices caused some problems internally in the locker room. But even if he didn't practice, he always showed up on Sundays and was a gamer. From what I remember, he never was a "beast that had to be fed" like Randy was with the Randy Ratio. His jail sentence was a joke in my opinion. How is accidentally shooting yourself with an unregistered gun worthy of two years in jail? They made an example of him just like they did with Vick and his dog fighting.

Does Plaxico all of a sudden "get it?" Doubtful. Will he be the dominant force he was in 07 for the Giants? Unlikely. But he needs the NFL more than the NFL needs him. He needs to cash in one last time before his career is over and he knows he can't mess up again.

In the end, I think I'd take a shot on him if I were the Pats. He's only going to get a one year, prove-it type of deal most likely. Why not take a shot on him? We could use a big WR to play outside the numbers who is also willing to go over the middle and has something to prove. He may be past his prime, but he can still help. And it's a low risk, high reward type of signing.

Belichick knows as well as anyone that certain guys have to be treated differently. He did that with Moss, like letting him skip some practices at times in 2009, and it worked for the most part until Moss' skill set started to deteriorate quickly. I can't imagine Plax being a huge problem in the locker room after just getting out of jail -- he would probably be grateful for a chance to play again.

Willie McGinest said on NFL Network recently that Plax would be a good fit in New England due to the strength of a veteran head coach and veteran QB.

 

[Deus Irae]

Willie McGinest said on NFL Network recently that Plax would be a good fit in New England due to the strength of a veteran head coach and veteran QB.

The Giants have an excellent, veteran coach, and that didn't stop Burress. The Steelers organization is solid from top to bottom, and that didn't stop Burress.

 

[BlueThunder]

Again...WHY do the Pats need a player like Plaxico?

They already have Gronkowski for the tall target in the EZ....and they have the mid range to short route guys also......

If Plaxico can't stretch the field.....what good is he in the Pats offense?

 

[Oswlek]

The Giants have an excellent, veteran coach, and that didn't stop Burress. The Steelers organization is solid from top to bottom, and that didn't stop Burress.

Not only that, but Burress is the antithesis of the quick twitch, agile receiver that the NE system prefers. There really isn't a single intelligent reason why anyone would want him on the team.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I hate Burress for the Super Bowl too, but the past is the past. What gives us the best chance of winning in 2011. Business first.

I think Burress can still be a solid contributor in the NFL. He may not have put up great stats every game, but when crunch time came, few were better than him. He had a knack for making the big play when you needed it the most.

He will be 34 and will be a few years removed from the last time he played competitively, but his skill set was never really built on speed. I think he ran close to a 4.6 forty yard dash coming out of Michigan St. He was more of a guy that used his height and body size to make big plays. He was a pretty physical receiver that went over the middle and was deadly in the red zone.

He was never a guy that would take the top off a defense like Moss. So since his game was never really built on making plays by getting behind the defense or beating DB's with quickness, I think he can still contribute because he still has his size.

Randy Moss was mostly a one dimensional deep threat who didn't have much interest in running any other routes than a fly route or a deep post, and when he was young, he didn't have to run anything but those routes because he had 4.3 speed. But he doesn't have that speed anymore and he is only getting older.

So from a skill set standpoint, I think I'd take Plaxico, especially over guys like Owens and Moss.

But the question with Plaxico has been and still is his off-field baggage. The guy always came off as lazy to me. It seemed like he would go out of his way to miss practices caused some problems internally in the locker room. But even if he didn't practice, he always showed up on Sundays and was a gamer. From what I remember, he never was a "beast that had to be fed" like Randy was with the Randy Ratio. His jail sentence was a joke in my opinion. How is accidentally shooting yourself with an unregistered gun worthy of two years in jail? They made an example of him just like they did with Vick and his dog fighting.

Does Plaxico all of a sudden "get it?" Doubtful. Will he be the dominant force he was in 07 for the Giants? Unlikely. But he needs the NFL more than the NFL needs him. He needs to cash in one last time before his career is over and he knows he can't mess up again.

In the end, I think I'd take a shot on him if I were the Pats. He's only going to get a one year, prove-it type of deal most likely. Why not take a shot on him? We could use a big WR to play outside the numbers who is also willing to go over the middle and has something to prove. He may be past his prime, but he can still help. And it's a low risk, high reward type of signing.

Belichick knows as well as anyone that certain guys have to be treated differently. He did that with Moss, like letting him skip some practices at times in 2009, and it worked for the most part until Moss' skill set started to deteriorate quickly. I can't imagine Plax being a huge problem in the locker room after just getting out of jail -- he would probably be grateful for a chance to play again.

Willie McGinest said on NFL Network recently that Plax would be a good fit in New England due to the strength of a veteran head coach and veteran QB.

Aside from whether or not we'd want him, would he want to come here?

He needs money, bad, and I think his first priority would be getting paid. Is BB going to open up the checkbook for him? I rather doubt it, at best I think we'd give him a league minimum deal with incentives based on production, and him not being familiar with the Pat's offense would make that less than attractive.

I bet he ends up in St. Louis, they desperately need WRs for Bradford to throw to, and apparently Plax has a good relationship with Spags.

 

[Deus Irae]

Not only that, but Burress is the antithesis of the quick twitch, agile receiver that the NE system prefers. There really isn't a single intelligent reason why anyone would want him on the team.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. If you knew he was still capable of being what he was, you'd be getting an excellent, tall outside receiver that could decimate opposing defenses with Brady pulling the trigger ( ). The question, beyond his abilities, is his attitude, though, and I'm not seeing BB wanting to deal with the circus.

 

[BlueThunder]

"The question, beyond his abilities, is his attitude, though, and I'm not seeing BB wanting to deal with the circus."

Totally agree

 

[Oswlek]

Well, I wouldn't go that far. If you knew he was still capable of being what he was, you'd be getting an excellent, tall outside receiver that could decimate opposing defenses with Brady pulling the trigger ( ). The question, beyond his abilities, is his attitude, though, and I'm not seeing BB wanting to deal with the circus.

I would go that far. Even at his best, he was a terrible system fit.

Pass.

 

[Deus Irae]

I would go that far. Even at his best, he was a terrible system fit.

Pass.

People said the same thing about Moss. That worked out pretty well in 2007. The system fit argument gets so wildly overblown on this site that it's becoming almost meaningless.

Burress is a big, physical wide receiver. At his best, he was a vastly superior Brandon Tate, albeit without the return game. If Burress is a terrible fit, what the hell was BB thinking drafting Tate?

 

[Oswlek]

People said the same thing about Moss. That worked out pretty well in 2007. The system fit argument gets so wildly overblown on this site that it's becoming almost meaningless.

Burress is a big, physical wide receiver. At his best, he was a vastly superior Brandon Tate, albeit without the return game. If Burress is a terrible fit, what the hell was BB thinking drafting Tate?

I'll grant you the Moss thing, but the talent gap between Randy and Burress is enormous.

Tate and Burress aren't even remotely comparable. Brandon is faster and quicker, with the ability to be a deep threat and also the quickness to be used more traditionally. The same cannot be said for Plaxico.

"System fit" isn't meaningless, it is just that people use it as an excuse without really understanding what they are talking about. In this case, I do.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'll grant you the Moss thing, but the talent gap between Randy and Burress is enormous.

As is the gap between Burress and the outside receivers for the Patriots

Tate and Burress aren't even remotely comparable. Brandon is faster and quicker, with the ability to be a deep threat and also the quickness to be used more traditionally. The same cannot be said for Plaxico.

1.) Plaxico runs/ran the faster 40 time (3 cone times are unavailable), according to what's generally available

2.) Brandon has not shown the ability to use 'quickness' to be used more traditionally.

3.) Burress has actually played the role that Tate is in, and played it at a much higher level than Tate has achieved to date.

"System fit" isn't meaningless, it is just that people use it as an excuse without really understanding what they are talking about. In this case, I do.

I don't want Burress on the team, because I think there are better options available. But the 'terrible fit' argument makes no sense in light of this team's history since 2000.

 

[Oswlek]

As is the gap between Burress and the outside receivers for the Patriots

2007 Burress vs 2010 NE guys, I might agree. But NE has a bevy of young, developing guys that have all shown flashes

1.) Plaxico runs/ran the faster 40 time (3 cone times are unavailable), according to what's generally available

2.) Brandon has not shown the ability to use 'quickness' to be used more traditionally.

3.) Burress has actually played the role that Tate is in, and played it at a much higher level than Tate has achieved to date.

I don't want Burress on the team, because I think there are better options available. But the 'terrible fit' argument makes no sense in light of this team's history since 2000.

1) I stand corrected. He never looked fast to me, certainly not the speed Brandon displayed on his KO returns. But I'll take your word for it.

2) Actually, Tate has shown ability to use his quickness, early in the season when he was used in as an intermediate threat. It was when they used him solely as a deep threat that his targets dropped off.

3) Burress was certainly a better deep threat than Tate was. And if NE views Tate as a guy who is only going to run the same routes as he did in 2010, then I'd agree with you. But Tate has displayed decent intermediate quickness that I've never seen from Burress.

Burress is a guy who could probably still be good for a team like Seattle, that does a lot of guys making plays in small spaces using physicallity (the one thing he has in spades over all the NE receivers except possibly Price). But NE relies on receivers finding open spaces more than body positioning (like the TE's do). And Burress hasn't done enough to make me feel that is a good fit for him. He certainly hasn't don enough to prove he can get comfortable with all the post-snap reads that NE does. He might work out just fine, but he'll have a lot of reponsibilities that he's never really shown on the field.

 

[Deus Irae]

2007 Burress vs 2010 NE guys, I might agree. But NE has a bevy of young, developing guys that have all shown flashes

Well, Burress' current level is the great unknown. However, it's being very kind to say that the Patriots young guys have shown flashes. Price showed nothing. He got in one meaningless game. Edelman has shown nothing as an outside receiver. Tate's shown little that makes it seem as if he can handle being a WR1, which is what he's being called to be.

1) I stand corrected. He never looked fast to me, certainly not the speed Brandon displayed on his KO returns. But I'll take your word for it.

Burress, like Tate, has numbers all over the place. From 4.4 to 4.59. Neither worked the combine. I probably would have been more accurate saying that Burress is frequently cited with the faster time, so my apologies for not being more clear in my response.

2) Actually, Tate has shown ability to use his quickness, early in the season when he was used in as an intermediate threat. It was when they used him solely as a deep threat that his targets dropped off.

No, Tate showed an ability to get open on occasion when defenses were focused almost exclusively on Moss/Welker. Once the Moss aspect was removed from the equation, Tate frequently showed an ability to get completely shut down.

3) Burress was certainly a better deep threat than Tate was. And if NE views Tate as a guy who is only going to run the same routes as he did in 2010, then I'd agree with you. But Tate has displayed decent intermediate quickness that I've never seen from Burress.

I'm not sure what players you've been watching. Tate's shown very little without Moss around to give him the favorable matchups, and Burress has certainly shown the ability to threaten the intermediate areas of the field.

Burress is a guy who could probably still be good for a team like Seattle, that does a lot of guys making plays in small spaces using physicallity (the one thing he has in spades over all the NE receivers except possibly Price). But NE relies on receivers finding open spaces more than body positioning (like the TE's do). And Burress hasn't done enough to make me feel that is a good fit for him. He certainly hasn't don enough to prove he can get comfortable with all the post-snap reads that NE does. He might work out just fine, but he'll have a lot of reponsibilities that he's never really shown on the field.

Again, you're claiming the bad system fit, which is simply you making a guess. If the team could work the physical skills of Moss/Stallworth/Gaffney/Givens into the system for intermediate-deep receptions (heck, we could arguably even toss Caldwell in the mix), it could integrate Burress, depending upon his skill erosion level.

 

[Oswlek]

Well, Burress' current level is the great unknown. However, it's being very kind to say that the Patriots young guys have shown flashes. Price showed nothing. He got in one meaningless game. Edelman has shown nothing as an outside receiver. Tate's shown little that makes it seem as if he can handle being a WR1, which is what he's being called to be.

Burress, like Tate, has numbers all over the place. From 4.4 to 4.59. Neither worked the combine. I probably would have been more accurate saying that Burress is frequently cited with the faster time, so my apologies for not being more clear in my response.

No, Tate showed an ability to get open on occasion when defenses were focused almost exclusively on Moss/Welker. Once the Moss aspect was removed from the equation, Tate frequently showed an ability to get completely shut down.

I'm not sure what players you've been watching. Tate's shown very little without Moss around to give him the favorable matchups, and Burress has certainly shown the ability to threaten the intermediate areas of the field.

Again, you're claiming the bad system fit, which is simply you making a guess. If the team could work the physical skills of Moss/Stallworth/Gaffney/Givens into the system for intermediate-deep receptions (heck, we could arguably even toss Caldwell in the mix), it could integrate Burress, depending upon his skill erosion level.

Tate's numbers didn't drop off because teams focused on him more, they dropped off because NE utilized him in a completely different manner. Your adding a level of causation that isn't quite aligned with the truth.

Now, that said, if Tate were the deep threat his speed would make him seem to be, then he should have put up better numbers. You won't get any argument from me on that one. But his extra targets in the first handful of games was because he was beating guys on intermediate routes. He's shown more ability to do that than anything else.

Price did only get a couple snaps, but I'm telling you that kid is going to be a player. Fast as sh!t and he stops on a dime. He showed me more in that one game than Tate did all year (which is meant as both a mild dig on Brandon and a compliment to Taylor). David Givens with more speed is what I see with Price. :rocker:

I also don't disagree that any system can accomodate any talented player. The question is, do you want to do what would need to be done to do so. Moss was incredible in 2007, but he had already dropped off enough by 2009 that it was obvious he wasn't quite what we had in mind (and I think Moss was better in 2009 than Burress ever was). Stallworth was phased out before the end of his lone season here. I'm not sure why you mention Gaffney and Givens, they are guys who seem to fit the profile a little better. Not Deion Branch/Brown/Welker perfection, but sharper cuts and smarter guys.

I don't think Burress was ever a strong enough player to make the accomodation worthwhile. I've been wrong a couple times before, so I could be again. :confused2:

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Burress was seen in his interview wearing a Phillies cap

You can assume he is a Phillies fan or you can also think that it is a sign that the Eagles will sign him the day FA begins.


Either way,I think its an 80% chance or so Burress joins his fellow con,Vick on the Eagles.