Do you think we are seeing the 2012 Rob Gronkowski?

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Sorry for being a downer, but I just have to ask if anyone else is as concerned as I am about Rob Gronkowski. Reports about hip and back injuries- and the fact that he seems to get up gingerly so often- have gotten me worried.

Gronk is still playing at a fairly high level, but it's not the statistics that bother me. His ability to run seem routes helped to stretch the field the last two years and usually took a safety into coverage. In addition, the Patriots are shaky in the red zone if the running game isn't clicking, which was never a problem due to Gronk's presence. It is obvious that he is hurting, lacking explosiveness, and not really trusted to make athletic, leaping plays. If you don't believe this, go back and watch tape from last year. Completely different player. He just doesn't seem to be having any fun either, which is his hallmark. Will we see that dominating player again this year? Are you concerned this back injury will linger throughout his career?

It's strange to think that the Patriots' offense thus far have used tight ends as complementary pieces to the offense and not the showcase, yet are still averaging over 30 ppg.

Anyway, if anyone has some awesome inside information about Gronk's injury (and how there's nothing to worry about long-term), I would feel better =).

 

[Patriots Nation NY]

lol ... eye contact

 

[Sciz]

He's playing through a lot of pain, and as long as it's nothing but pain, there's really no reason to shut him down at least until the bye. Hopefully we'll see explosive Gronk after that.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He's playing through a lot of pain, and as long as it's nothing but pain, there's really no reason to shut him down at least until the bye. Hopefully we'll see explosive Gronk after that.

That's what I am hoping too, but it seems like his health is getting worse right now, not better. In Week 2 vs Arizona, I remember Brady overthrew him on a 50 yard pass that should have been a TD. Can't imagine him running that route based on what I've seen for the last month.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

Yes, He looks like he's in pain. After this game I think there are quite a few guys beat up a little. That was a physical, wet, slippy, slidey game. It's gonna be a long, tired flight home. :nosmile:

 

[bostonia3333]

I've been wanting to start a thread like this, but chose not to

Its easy to discern that Gronk's burst off the line of scrimmage just isn't there. His ability to get separation and leverage are clearly down. And I agree he doesn't look to be having fun---injuries always affect a super young player's psyche the worst

I remember last year, Brady would do his video game dropback and just rifle it down the middle to Gronk for a 17 yd gain like it was nothing. I've been missing that all season and I'm sure it pains him to not be able to do that anymore. It's unreal how an injury can just bring you back down to earth like that. It's gotta suck for Gronk, he was the most gifted offensive player in the league last year outside of Megatron. I think we can blame good ole Bernie Pollard for alot of this. High ankle sprains usually linger for awhile, and some are just career nagging.

 

[Ifleninwasawizard]

In addition, the Patriots are shaky in the red zone if the running game isn't clicking, which was never a problem due to Gronk's presence.

It's strange to think that the Patriots' offense thus far have used tight ends as complementary pieces to the offense and not the showcase, yet are still averaging over 30 ppg.

Some of this could be McDaniels experimenting with things. He messed around with Edelman at the beginning of the year, but proved he still knows how to employ Welker. Everyone was freaking out at the 3rd and long draws to Woodhead at the beginning of the year, but now we can see why they made sense.

I'm not denying that Gronk could be hurt, that is totally possible.

But my gut feeling is that BB and McDaniels are making sure that 2007 never happens again. Basically, they are taking risks and breaking away from proven formula's so that the team doesn't become predictable. By the end of 2007 everyone knew the only way to even hope to stop the pats was by focusing almost exclusively on taking away Moss over the top and Welker underneath. Moss and Welker were the showpieces, and everyone knew how they were going to be used.

Our two TE sets may still be the showpiece to our offense, we just aren't really showing it yet. We are learning how to use Lloyd and the running game to their full extent. If we can do that and still have the two TE showpiece in our back pocket we'll be able to game plan against every NFL defense without them really being able to game plan against us.

 

[ivanvamp]

Gronk is on pace for the following numbers:

77 rec
949 yds
8 td

Which is WAY down from last year. But that's not unexpected, for a variety of reasons:

(1) The addition of Brandon Lloyd, who is taking away receptions from other receivers. Last year, Branch had 51 receptions for 702 yards. This year, Lloyd is on pace for 91 rec for 1069 yds.

(2) The running game is eating up a bunch of passing opportunities. Last year the Pats ran 438 times for 1764 yds. This year, they're on pace to run the ball 579 times for 2437 yds.

Now, they're still throwing a lot, but they're spreading it around to more players than Gronk. I also think he's playing hurt, and defenses are keying on him more than they did last year. In various prediction threads before the start of the year, I predicted that Gronk would have a good year (by average NFL standards, a really good year), but that it would be down from last year. How could it be as good as last year? He did things never before done in the history of the NFL. Very hard to repeat record-setting seasons.

EDIT: By the way, Wes Welker continues to amaze. He's currently on pace for 128 receptions for 1659 yds. Unbelievable.

 

[stcjones]

I don't think there is any question that this is not the same Gronk this year as compared to last. Don't have stats handy but as we all know Gronk was one of Brady's favorite targets last year and was able to run long or short routes with amazing speed for a big guy. He did it all last year. Now of course it would have been nearly impossible for him to match year's magic and stats. But he has been WAY off from last year. Seems rarely targeted,slower on routes etc. Maybe it is the coming back from the ankle injury and the new hip and back issues that are slowing him down or being played "cautiously "...who knows. My primary worry for him is his back since he had pretty serious surgery there of course. Anyways, lets home we see the "old"Gronk out there soon....they need him!

AQUOTE=Ice_Ice_Brady;3199586]Sorry for being a downer, but I just have to ask if anyone else is as concerned as I am about Rob Gronkowski. Reports about hip and back injuries- and the fact that he seems to get up gingerly so often- have gotten me worried.

Gronk is still playing at a fairly high level, but it's not the statistics that bother me. His ability to run seem routes helped to stretch the field the last two years and usually took a safety into coverage. In addition, the Patriots are shaky in the red zone if the running game isn't clicking, which was never a problem due to Gronk's presence. It is obvious that he is hurting, lacking explosiveness, and not really trusted to make athletic, leaping plays. If you don't believe this, go back and watch tape from last year. Completely different player. He just doesn't seem to be having any fun either, which is his hallmark. Will we see that dominating player again this year? Are you concerned this back injury will linger throughout his career?

It's strange to think that the Patriots' offense thus far have used tight ends as complementary pieces to the offense and not the showcase, yet are still averaging over 30 ppg.

Anyway, if anyone has some awesome inside information about Gronk's injury (and how there's nothing to worry about long-term), I would feel better =).[/QUOTE]

 

[Shed83]

Most people thought his production would go down this year for a variety of reasons,

More running plays, more game planning from the opposition, more targets for brady to use. Gronk has done a lot more blocking this season than last.

But one thing that stood out to me so far is his hands. He has dropped some passes this year that he just didnt/wouldnt last year.

Its also surprising how little he has been targeted in the end zone - im not sure if that is his problem with lack of seperation, Brady just not getting the ball to him or if its the play calls.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think they have enough sense to sit him if he's not adding to the team compared with "no gronk." However, if we pine away for Gronk before he started taking his dings (against a league that didn't really know he was coming,) it may be a long time before Gronk is "back to his old self."

I think he'll really appreciate the extra week off at the bye, but it's a team, not a collection of stars. After all the years of "Gee why didn't we get Dallas Clark" and "Gee why didn't we get Antonio Gates," we ended up with two world-class tight ends. It's nice to have Hernandez back, if you ask me. Yeah, better if Gronk is a monster... but I agree, it doesn't look like we'll see 2011 Gronk again. Fortunately, overall, we have the tools to deal with that.

 

[serifyn]

With Gronk staying in to help with protection and the patriots utilizing the run game more, everyone's numbers will go down, except Welker, hes been on fire.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Most people thought his production would go down this year for a variety of reasons,

More running plays, more game planning from the opposition, more targets for brady to use. Gronk has done a lot more blocking this season than last.

But one thing that stood out to me so far is his hands. He has dropped some passes this year that he just didnt/wouldnt last year.

Its also surprising how little he has been targeted in the end zone - im not sure if that is his problem with lack of seperation, Brady just not getting the ball to him or if its the play calls.

The infamous intentional grounding play saw Gronk running to the corner wide open. That play was fubar from the start, and brady rushed it. The fact that Brady didn't even look Gronks way was perplexing to me and certainly worlds different from last year.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The only thing this team has going for it at the moment is tempo and we seemed determined to avoid picking up the pace last night. Last night we were back to matchup engineering and game plan and playcalling and the execution wasn't there to force the issue. Seattle was adapting to most everything not named Welker over the course of the afternoon. When we did make plays it was largely individual effort on the part of the playmakers (Welker, Lloyd, Woodhead, Brady). The OL and the RB's not named Woodhead struggled to make any kind of consistent yardage. Eventually we abandoned the run (until the last series when we used it in place of a knee to eat up Seattle's TO's) and then Brady was under increasing pressure as a result. Throw in a couple of critical drops and factor in a couple of wet ball grounders and you have a team basically begging to be beat in the waning minutes of a road game.

Fells made a hell of a catch and then wasn't targeted or utilized again. Bolden went down and Riddley was ineffective and the only play Vereen made all night was a last ditch stop on a return. Whatever the case may be the secondary is going backwards, literally and figuratively, either due to utter lack of talent or mindnumbing devotion to coaching ineffective technique and adherence to consistently failed scheme. And the front 7 which appears to be talented is being constricted by maddeningly vanilla scheme that seems to demand the talent prevail on it's own merit. Wilson is clearly a QB on whom the focus should have been confining him to the pocket. Yet we consistently chased him out of it and dared him to burn us. He obliged.

Gronk has not been the same player since pre season. I've been castigated for even suggesting that prior to yesterday. But it's been clear his focus and energy has been lacking and he at times looks like he's running in cement shoes. And absent a healthy and productive Hernendez he's like a lost boy in this offense. They now appear intent on rushing Hernandez back to be a similar situation.

I think out of the gate whatever Josh was attempting to do to reconfigure this offense has backfired. When forced to abandon his plans and adapt the offense responded and found it's rhythm. But yesterday he was back to attempting to control the script and the results were similar to his earlier efforts. I shudder to think what will happen if Edelman returns. At this point I'd almost rather have he and BOB switch places for a month. Josh seems intent on forcing what should work schematically as opposed to focusing on what is working and letting the scheme evolve as it can or will. Retooling for the post season is all well and good unless it impacts your ability to get there in shape to advance. Experimentation and development are all well and good until the end doesn't justify the means.

Six games in you should know what you have. At the moment we seem to have a .500 team that is inconsistent and still searching for an identity while leaning as heavily as ever on the one guy they were not willing to commit to or extend themselves for. Go figure. Cornering the market on TE's you're not willing or able to utilize and eschewing established WR's with a history of success didn't do the trick...Nor did drafting and assembling a studly front 7. Or drafting/signing multiple young RB's. It's still coming down to Welker and Woody and the hold your breath secondary.

And I guess Bill showed Waters who was the boss, too. Just had to **** around contractually with another grisled vet he could sure use in the trenches. Will be interesting to see come December what they might have gotten the young TE duo signed for had they not chosen to be quite so pro active coming off their breakout second seasons. Probably a good thing the new CBA will preclude that level of proactivity going forward.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The infamous intentional grounding play saw Gronk running to the corner wide open. That play was fubar from the start, and brady rushed it. The fact that Brady didn't even look Gronks way was perplexing to me and certainly worlds different from last year.

Perhaps one explanation was he wasn't expecting him to go there... Because that attempt would have taken too long and if missed time would have expired. Branch was held up at the line. I think Brady was expecting hit or overthrow targets on the back line across the middle and he had none. Had to be a quick strike play. Nothing else was in play as it was TD or INC and FG. He had 5 seconds or less to work with to leave time on the clock for a FG. Never should have run a play in that context. Not the first time this season they've left points on the field over being too cute setting up the next play only to have that bite them in the ass.

 

[upstater1]

The infamous intentional grounding play saw Gronk running to the corner wide open. That play was fubar from the start, and brady rushed it. The fact that Brady didn't even look Gronks way was perplexing to me and certainly worlds different from last year.

The reason you don't extend that play or throw to the sidelines is you don't want to run out of time.

You look for a quick throw up the middle. If it's not there, you throw at someone's feet.

The problem is Brady was grabbed and almost sacked. If he's sacked there and doesn't throw it away, the half is over.

The intentional grounding is thus practically irrelevant.

This is why you go for a FG with 6 seconds left on the clock.

 

[aluminum seats]

Gronk has not been the same player since pre season. I've been castigated for even suggesting that prior to yesterday. But it's been clear his focus and energy has been lacking

I don't think the issue is his "focus and energy" but his injury. It appears to be one--as many are--that takes a year before the player is back to his old self. He'll be good this year, but not like last year. Doesn't mean the Pats can't win it with him this way.

 

[reflexblue]

Sorry for being a downer, but I just have to ask if anyone else is as concerned as I am about Rob Gronkowski. Reports about hip and back injuries- and the fact that he seems to get up gingerly so often- have gotten me worried.

Gronk is still playing at a fairly high level, but it's not the statistics that bother me. His ability to run seem routes helped to stretch the field the last two years and usually took a safety into coverage. In addition, the Patriots are shaky in the red zone if the running game isn't clicking, which was never a problem due to Gronk's presence. It is obvious that he is hurting, lacking explosiveness, and not really trusted to make athletic, leaping plays. If you don't believe this, go back and watch tape from last year. Completely different player. He just doesn't seem to be having any fun either, which is his hallmark. Will we see that dominating player again this year? Are you concerned this back injury will linger throughout his career?

It's strange to think that the Patriots' offense thus far have used tight ends as complementary pieces to the offense and not the showcase, yet are still averaging over 30 ppg.

Anyway, if anyone has some awesome inside information about Gronk's injury (and how there's nothing to worry about long-term), I would feel better =).

No,, i think he hasn't recovered yet form off season surgery. Watching him he doesn't have the speed or power he did last year. AH is still hurting too.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't think the issue is his "focus and energy" but his injury. It appears to be one--as many are--that takes a year before the player is back to his old self. He'll be good this year, but not like last year. Doesn't mean the Pats can't win it with him this way.

I don't know. Eight months past ankle ligament surgery is a good deal of time. Guys come back from ACL surgery faster. And if you have to be 100% to be effective then that somewhat limits your skillset value in this league as no one ever is on an NFL team once the bell rings. I'm concerned that while he is a workout warrior he's also a party animal and rehabbing and working out aren't the same thing. He says he parties because he's antsy if bored (I assume he's ADHD with the emphasis on the HD). I say ramp up the film room time, which I'm sure he is doing in season but did too little of in the off season. Mental workouts are as significant as the physical ones. But hey, he got his big extension sight unseen from those who should know so what do I know... Other than what I see and deciper of human nature. And before I get the whole boys will be boys what do you expect him to do he's young and loving life and coming off a monster season blather, difficulty in playing well enough through injury and the need to be free spirited and not stifled have been excuses for lots of potential HOF careers meandering off course early on. In this league talent will only get you so far. The guys who go on to excel basically change their lifestyle in the process and focus on any and every thing that may gain them some edge on the competition. Wilfork, Welker, Brady are all examples of that mindset. They're maximizing their talent (and durability in the process).

To me he seems to lack the speed, strength, catch radius, focus and energy he exhibited out of the gate, not to mention that intense almost reckless abandon that basically set him apart. Maybe all the new wrinkles Josh added have exacerbated his situation, too because he's looks tentative and a bit sheepish like he isn't quite comfortable physically or mentally with what he's supposed to be doing in the reworked offense. Of course at times they all seem to be playing tense and uncomfortable, and I do think Josh's reinvent the wheel level of tinkering has led to that mindset. What was comfortable last season has become cumbersome and struggles to find a consistent rhythm. I think the first 2-3 weeks set that tone and the team has been fighting through varying levels of discomfort ever since.

 

[reflexblue]

I don't know. Eight months past ankle ligament surgery is a good deal of time. Guys come back from ACL surgery faster. And if you have to be 100% to be effective then that somewhat limits your skillset value in this league as no one ever is on an NFL team once the bell rings. I'm concerned that while he is a workout warrior he's also a party animal and rehabbing and working out aren't the same thing. He says he parties because he's antsy if bored (I assume he's ADHD with the emphasis on the HD). I say ramp up the film room time, which I'm sure he is doing in season but did too little of in the off season. Mental workouts are as significant as the physical ones. But hey, he got his big extension sight unseen from those who should know so what do I know... Other than what I see and deciper of human nature. And before I get the whole boys will be boys what do you expect him to do he's young and loving life and coming off a monster season blather, difficulty in playing well enough through injury and the need to be free spirited and not stifled have been excuses for lots of potential HOF careers meandering off course early on. In this league talent will only get you so far. The guys who go on to excel basically change their lifestyle in the process and focus on any and every thing that may gain them some edge on the competition. Wilfork, Welker, Brady are all examples of that mindset. They're maximizing their talent (and durability in the process).

To me he seems to lack the speed, strength, catch radius, focus and energy he exhibited out of the gate, not to mention that intense almost reckless abandon that basically set him apart. Maybe all the new wrinkles Josh added have exacerbated his situation, too because he's looks tentative and a bit sheepish like he isn't quite comfortable physically or mentally with what he's supposed to be doing in the reworked offense. Of course at times they all seem to be playing tense and uncomfortable, and I do think Josh's reinvent the wheel level of tinkering has led to that mindset. What was comfortable last season has become cumbersome and struggles to find a consistent rhythm. I think the first 2-3 weeks set that tone and the team has been fighting through varying levels of discomfort ever since.

Every one is different when it comes to the affects of surgery, some heal faster than others. That being said it could be a combination of the injury and getting use to a new offense.