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Do you think Pats were just going to cut Vrabel?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by tombonneau, Feb 28, 2009.

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  1. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    I was thinking about it, and that's about the only scenario where the value from the Pats POV makes sense. Given the cap hit, they could have been planning on cutting Vrable soon, but rather than do that, they threw him in the deal to KC so they didn't have to bother going after him in FA.

    That way, from their POV, they pretty much got Cassel for #35.
  2. CheerforTom

    CheerforTom Rookie

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    I do think this. Vrabel's drop off from 2007 to 2008 was astounding. At this point we'd be much better off in investing in a new edge rusher.
  3. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    It was a way to treat a valued guy with respect. Trade him, make him feel he was worth something, instead of just cutting him.

    Belichick learned from his experience with cutting Milloy
  4. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I think that is the case. I think Vrabel played with a damaged shoulder last year and "warrior"ed his way through it, but he was clearly on the decline.

    I would love to see BB grab two OLB's in this draft and move Thomas back to SILB, which is where opposing offenses ran almost at will last year.
  5. PATS68

    PATS68 Rookie

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    My thinking is that they were going to cut him and he would have signed with Cleveland in a heart beat. He is from Ohio and loves Ohio. I don't think BB wanted to see Vrabel on rat boys team. If it helps get the deal done then I am all for it.

    Vrable is at the end of the road.
  6. italian pat patriot

    italian pat patriot Rookie

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  7. matt1073

    matt1073 Guest

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    With as much respect to Mike as possible cause I love the guy, maybe KC taking Mike in the deal was a huge favor. now KC has to pay him his bonus which is due any day now, he is 34 yrs old and will have to have shoulder surgery Mikes damaged goods. With a draft full of LBs Mike would have most likely been cut anyway
  8. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that this is right. Many of us are still pi$$ed at the team's treatment of Milloy.

    We might have traded him for a 5th or 6th in camp. I suspect that KC wanted a late pcik back from us and accepted Vrabel instead.

  9. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No i don't think they were going to cut him. I think he was 1. a salary dump and 2. Pioli wanted him for his leadership.

    Two years ago when he had the 12 sacks we were scoring so many points the opposition had to throw and Vrable got to rush the passer more. last year we weren't scoring as many points plus he was injured so i think that was the main reason for his drop off. That and who else had to be accounted for Seymour?
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  10. crowell33

    crowell33 Rookie

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    Based on the trade it appears Vrabel had ZERO value. Cassel was worth at least a 2nd by himself. That would mean Vrabel was not even worth a 7th round pick or one would have been included in the deal.
  11. VOODOOZF

    VOODOOZF Rookie

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    It seems logical that he was a cash dump and would have been dropped anyway.
  12. PatsCanDoIt

    PatsCanDoIt Rookie

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    I don't think it matters at this point. It's a done deal. We can go on and on about getting ripped off. We can talk about Vrabel's contract versus his expected production. I think we're better off discussing current and possible future Patriots players.
  13. Stu Pidassle

    Stu Pidassle Rookie

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    While others think we should not have rushed into taking less in ths deal. I think this gives the team time to deal with FA's and trades leading up to the draft. In any event, I am not sure they had much choice. As mentioned earlier in this thread; Vrabel had a roster bonus that came due last week which was the reason for the timing of this deal.

    Good luck to two players I will continue to be a fan of. The Pat's came out ok in the deal as well. We have some good will with KC and a lot of flexibility to build our roster.

    Stu
  14. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Vrabel was a throw in. But he gets to save face because he was traded along with Cassel, not cut. KC will welcome having a 3-4 vet to transition to their new defensive scheme. I honestly thought/predicted that Vrabel would be a cap casualty before. I was initially surprised we got something in value for him in a trade but if you look at the trade as a whole, Cassel was easily worth the 2nd by himself. Anyways thanks for the memories Mike and good luck in KC!
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2009
  15. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    Ouch, bent over by KC.
  16. SeymourTrophies

    SeymourTrophies Rookie

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    So...what were we expecting? Vrabel is a waste of roster space, and we weren't getting their number 3.
  17. MassPats38

    MassPats38 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Vrabel has value despite his age and I do not see him getting cut if he stays. I agree with the theory Cassel, with the franchise tag, was more than KC was willing to assume for the pick NE wanted and the Chiefs are a very young team in need of a defensive veteran who can command on the field.

    I honestly do not see what all those in favor of cutting Vrabel see. The drop off from 2007, other than raw statistics, was not as evident as all these experts seem to think it was. When opposing teams are always having to play from behind, more sacks are inevitable. 2008 presented a very different picture for the defense.

    KC read NE's position and offered a palatable alternative to NE eating a QB franchise figure. Vrabel was the casualty. If Vrabel was of no value, he would not have been traded as Pioli knows his capabilities at this point and would not have added him to the roster. I would rate the LB value on NE prior to this trade as Mayo, Thomas, Vrabel, in that order. Who is a better OLB currently on the roster comprising the top 4 LBs on the team other than Mayo (if moved outside) and Thomas?
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  18. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    That too. But BB is a businesman too. He just dumped 4.4M in cap money for a guy he was gonna cut, or certainly not resign next year (i.e. get nothing for) to sweeten the pot enough to get a prime pick in this years draft, for a guy that people obviously were hesitant about (the market was pretty thin.

    Think about big Willie to Cleveland. Great in the locker room, sh!tty on the field. This is win-win

    He was traded for the LOCKER ROOM. I'm quite sure Pioli got that. As Crennel did before him.
  19. CMcCartney

    CMcCartney Rookie

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    Felger on EEI this morning saying that his 'sources' tell him that Vrabel was, in fact, going to be cut. By trading him he gets to keep his roster bonus, etc.. It's the only thing that makes any sense in all of this..
  20. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

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    They were going to cut him and Pioli probably knew it before he left here. Pioli says that if they throw in Vrabel, Cassel for #34 is a done deal and Bill willingly accepts.

    Piloi wants Vrabel for a year in his locker room to help change the culture. He couldn't get him if he got cut because Vrabel would not go to a rebuilding team. It wasn't a favor to anyone - not Vrabel who would probably rather be a UFA and not to Pioli. It was a very smart man using some inside knowledge and leverage to get a player he wanted the only way he could. He knew the Patriots woud be willing to throw in Vrabel to get #34 for Cassel so he made sure they did.
  21. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    Good to know. The more I was thinking about it yesterday, it seemed like the only way Vrabel's inclusion would make sense, hence my post.
  22. Spiral

    Spiral PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He may or may not have been willing to go to a rebuilding team, but no team was going to pay him a $3M signing bonus. I strongly suspect Pioli knew Vrabel wasn't going to see that roster bonus. BB manages to keep the cash and Vrabel gets his roster bonus. A nice gesture by all concerned, in my opinion.
  23. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    I told my boss that I can be traded if I get a $3 million roster bonus.

    I would not feel disrespected at all.

    I wonder if Mike will use this as a catapult toward a career in coaching.
  24. jefmblrd

    jefmblrd Rookie

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    Unless it's a lot of spin (which I don't think) it seems like his time with the Pats was up.
  25. ScottieC

    ScottieC Rookie

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    Mike was the union guy on the team, Correct?

    Who's the guy now?
  26. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Others beyond Felger have reported that Mike was given the option of being cut or being traded to KC. He knew he probably wouldn't get $3M+ in new money from anyone else as a FA and probably welcomed the opportunity to skip the late in life transition and finish out his career in a system he had flourished in. So he said he'd prefer the trade. It was a first class heads up gesture by Belichick as well as from Pioli who has lots of cap space and little veteran leadership on a defense transitioning to the 3-4. I also hear there are rumors RAC may be talking with KC about becoming their DC, and that would certainly appeal to Vrabes.

    Today Mike gets a check from Clark Hunt for $1M and he gets to help install and play in a defense he's thoroughly comfortable in. Had he not gone to KC he'd have been cut yesterday unless he was willing to forego that bonus and possibly part of his $1.9M salary. For lots of reasons including probably his NFLPA rep status he was likely not willing to take a pay cut. Mangini might have wanted him in Cleveland but I think Mike was one of the defensive players who thought the little genius while bright was also a tad full of himself.

    And players in the locker room would be a lot more pissed off than merely saddened. It's business, but in this instance the player didn't get disrespected... In fact now many opine he was really a necessary chip to seal the deal...
  27. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    most believable post i've read thus far.....

  28. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Pioli also knew why, not because he can't play at all and has no value but because he wasn't worth his cap hit or compensation on a team as veteran as this who need to get younger and faster. Belichick won't overpay for talent. Pioli won't either but on the other hand has a young team transitioning to a new 3-4 system. Vrabel has more value in KC and in trade a lower cap hit on a team that likely has more cap than they can find players to spend it on.

    Still I also read somewhere that Belichick told Pioli taking on Vrabel was the deal clincher. Sure Bill could have cut Vrabel to achieve the same end but at the added expense of a really pissed off locker room. They're sad today, but not pissed because Vrabel got a good deal in the process. Today he's perceived as still valued and he's finishing out his full contract and possibly career in a system in which he's always played his best. As a cap cut he might have caught on elsewhere but not the 3-4 system he knows unless with Mangini (and I don't think he and Vrabel were best friends) or out in Denver where the installation will be a lot tougher sell.
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