Do you think Andre Carter and/or Brian Waters will return?

[Kontradiction]

Waters will be back. Carter will only be back if there is a horrific string of injuries along the D-Line.

 

[Metaphors]

Waters will be back. Carter will only be back if there is a horrific string of injuries along the D-Line.

I would tend to agree with you on both counts. Carter sniffing around with the Raiders tends to support the notion that his return is not a sure thing.

As for Waters, it is less clear. Today was a milestone day for him. If he reported by today, he could get enough practices in to see the field against the Giants next week...which should be enough for him to start week #1. With him out this week (assume he won't report in Tampa now), I'm thinking a week #1 scenario is much less likely. So what are the possible situations:

1) Retirement: If he planned to retire, there is no benefit in waiting to announce it. He may eventually end up retiring, but I doubt that is option 1 for him at this point.

2) Holding Out: No indication that his contract situation is an issue. Even if it were, it isn't like he will have many options elsewhere. While possible, this seems unlikely.

3) Injured: PUP and DNR are different designations but the roster effect is the same. If Waters weren't physically ready to report, he would be on PUP.

4) Skipping Camp: Waters doesn't need a full camp to get ready, so this seemed like the most plausible scenario. But camp is over and the opener is less than 3 weeks away. Just the logistics of reporting and the "warmup" period in the new CBA would eat away a good chunk of that. This seems much less likely today than it did yesterday.

5) Shadow Roster: This is my new theory. Waters is willing to return but the concept of a full season isn't overly appealing to him. The timing of when he comes back depends on team needs. With Mankins, Connolly, Thomas, Koppen, Wendell and McDonald (with Cannon available in a pinch), the Pats have an interior line that they are comfortable with. Add an injury or two and Waters gets a call. As the season goes on and the line wears down, a fresh Waters can be added as an injection of energy for a stretch run.

In any case, I think the common perception that Waters/Belichick are on the same page is correct. I'm just less certain that Waters will be at LG in Tennessee.

 

[Kontradiction]

I would tend to agree with you on both counts. Carter sniffing around with the Raiders tends to support the notion that his return is not a sure thing.

As for Waters, it is less clear. Today was a milestone day for him. If he reported by today, he could get enough practices in to see the field against the Giants next week...which should be enough for him to start week #1. With him out this week (assume he won't report in Tampa now), I'm thinking a week #1 scenario is much less likely. So what are the possible situations:

1) Retirement: If he planned to retire, there is no benefit in waiting to announce it. He may eventually end up retiring, but I doubt that is option 1 for him at this point.

2) Holding Out: No indication that his contract situation is an issue. Even if it were, it isn't like he will have many options elsewhere. While possible, this seems unlikely.

3) Injured: PUP and DNR are different designations but the roster effect is the same. If Waters weren't physically ready to report, he would be on PUP.

4) Skipping Camp: Waters doesn't need a full camp to get ready, so this seemed like the most plausible scenario. But camp is over and the opener is less than 3 weeks away. Just the logistics of reporting and the "warmup" period in the new CBA would eat away a good chunk of that. This seems much less likely today than it did yesterday.

5) Shadow Roster: This is my new theory. Waters is willing to return but the concept of a full season isn't overly appealing to him. The timing of when he comes back depends on team needs. With Mankins, Connolly, Thomas, Koppen, Wendell and McDonald (with Cannon available in a pinch), the Pats have an interior line that they are comfortable with. Add an injury or two and Waters gets a call. As the season goes on and the line wears down, a fresh Waters can be added as an injection of energy for a stretch run.

In any case, I think the common perception that Waters/Belichick are on the same page is correct. I'm just less certain that Waters will be at LG in Tennessee.

His locker is still intact and he's letting the team field questions about his current status. He'll be back by Week 1 at the very latest and he'll be refreshed. The guy is a year or two off from retirement. I don't blame him for skipping camp. Strahan did it in his last year and ask Nick Kaczur how he turned out.

 

[patsfan-1982]

i think Waters will be back soon as for Carter the fact that no other team tried to sign him a guy that was on pace for 14 sacks befor geting hurt tells me he is still injured or he dose not want to play anymore at lest not for a small contract

 

[signbabybrady]

i think Waters will be back soon as for Carter the fact that no other team tried to sign him a guy that was on pace for 14 sacks befor geting hurt tells me he is still injured or he dose not want to play anymore at lest not for a small contract

The prevailing thought is that he was not able to workout for teams until very recently (he was still rehabing) and now he is generating some interest from the Raiders. I have heard there was another team possibly showing intrest too though I dont recall where I saw that or who the team was.

My opinion is if he is working out for other teams that this wont be long and he will either get the money he wants elsewhere or will be back here on a cheap one year deal.

 

[goheels22002]

His locker is still intact and he's letting the team field questions about his current status. He'll be back by Week 1 at the very latest and he'll be refreshed. The guy is a year or two off from retirement. I don't blame him for skipping camp. Strahan did it in his last year and ask Nick Kaczur how he turned out.

I am happy for Mr. Brian Waters that he will be refreshed. We're friggin' exhausted. Why is it always about him?

 

[Pujo]

I was hopeful on Waters, but I figured with training camp over, this would be the week he showed up. Now I'm less confident that he'll be back.

I'm guessing Carter signs with the Raiders.

 

[BradyManny]

His locker is still intact and he's letting the team field questions about his current status. He'll be back by Week 1 at the very latest and he'll be refreshed. The guy is a year or two off from retirement. I don't blame him for skipping camp. Strahan did it in his last year and ask Nick Kaczur how he turned out.

I agree completely.

All evidence points to Waters returning. Reiss has been completely freaking out over Connolly being at G as if that's a sign Waters isn't coming back. There's absolutely zero indication that he's retiring or that he's holding out for more money, and the most logical conclusion is the guy just wants to skip camp.

The Patriots are aware of what is going on and have been the entire time. The only reason they are being so cryptic is so as not to establish a precedence that vets can skip camp. But what Reiss and a lot of beat guys fail to understand is that Belichick does make exceptions and he does treat everyone and everything on a case-by-case basis. He only has one rule and that's do what is best for the team. That's the only rule there are no exceptions to.

 

[Patriot 37]

Chiefs cut Waters July 28, 2011
Patriots sign Waters September 4, 2011
Patriots 1st game September 12, 2011
Waters Makes Pro Bowl


He doesn't like or need training camp. He is our RG.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Waters still has a locker...he will be back

 

[Patriot Missile]

Chiefs cut Waters July 28, 2011
Patriots sign Waters September 4, 2011
Patriots 1st game September 12, 2011
Waters Makes Pro Bowl


He doesn't like or need training camp. He is our RG.

Walter Jones held out of training camp 3 or 4 years in a row. Think he missed a total of 6. I don't think he needed it either.

 

[Buchanty]

Feeling confident Waters will be there at opening day - just too many little indicators, and I am just hoping that Reiss is having another "Addai Moment".

I am not feeling the same confidence for Carter, though I would love him back to mentor the draft class. As it stands at the moment there isnt a lot of room on the squad and I am assuming that the coaches want to see more from those on the bubble before forcing a release to acquire Carter. I also worry that the quad injury will have affected his explosion off his stance, making him less effective than last year.

I do think he will be on the speed dial list if any injuries occur either now or in the season.

 

[signbabybrady]

Chiefs cut Waters July 28, 2011
Patriots sign Waters September 4, 2011
Patriots 1st game September 12, 2011
Waters Makes Pro Bowl


He doesn't like or need training camp. He is our RG.

I dont think it makes a difference but one could argue that last year he at least had to get ready for camp on July 28th before he got cut. And then he could have worked even harder to get in shape to impress his eventual team.

----

If you guys have been watching the Dolphins on Hard knocks I think the Eric Steinbach situation is an interesting one as it gives us a glimpse what is like for these guys toward the end of the career balancing their health, usefulness to the team, and want to continue working. I think it adds an intersting context to this conversation. based on his talks with Philbin you can clearly see a guy who wants to play but who also knows he is not bringing the same level of play he is capable of. You can see him struggling with his health and struggling with still wanting to play. Also you can see that Philbin clearly wants this guy but that he also doesnt want to step on his toes and wants him to make the best choice for himself. Personally I have found those 2 or 3 conversations fascinating.

 

[signbabybrady]

Andre Carter visits Raiders; Rams next - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Headed to visit the Rams now. Hopefully neither team breaks the bank so he will come back here.

Edited and added the below.
Saw this quote in the comment section of this article I did not go to the Herald to verify if Howe really said it.

Per the Boston Herald's Jeff Howe, "word is" free agent DE Andre Carter still lacks speed and explosion coming off last year's torn quadriceps muscle.
Carter is "not close to being ready to play," according to Howe. The Raiders and Rams have shown interest in Carter in recent days, but neither team has signed him. At age 33, it's fair to wonder if Carter will regain his early-2011 form.

If this is true then that sux for him and for us as this would explain why we havent made an offer and likely wont.

 

[TyronePoole]

that news doesn't surprise me in the least if true, I'd actually be surprised if he was anything close to what he was.

 

[Joker]

Waters yes...Carter no

and cut Demps because...well...just because

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If Carter as reported lacks speed is not close to ready to play, nobody will waste a 53 on him. Shadow roster candidate if all goes well for him health wise. Wish him the best.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Jeff Howe reports that Andre Carter lacks speed and explosion and is nowhere even remotely close to being ready to play.

It looks like retirement is in Andre's near future unless a team needs him in mid to late season.

I would put Carter's chances to return here or play for any team in the NFL extremely unlikely ...At least Waters has no reports of not being up to the task.

 

[ATippett56]

Where's Waldo ..... I mean Waters?

 

[Off The Grid]

Feeling confident Waters will be there at opening day - just too many little indicators, and I am just hoping that Reiss is having another "Addai Moment".

I'm curious what you mean by that.

I'm not a big fan of Reiss. Mind you: He's not a bitter, capering Troll like so many local writers, but I don't think he adds a damned thing to the conversation. I stopped reading him a long time ago, because he seems terrified of taking a substantial position on anything. The next time he offers analytical insight will be the first.

Again: Not a bad guy.

Just sort'f...useless.