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Do you even respect Peyton Manning?


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If it's so easy to dismantle the argument, then do so instead of offering 4 paragraphs of nothing saying how 'easy' it is to dismantle the argument and a factual basis of "everybody is wrong." Apparently you are very well informed because you say so.

Articulate an actual argument (e.g., "My standard for great quarterbacks involve X in the regular season and Y in the post-season" and Manning lacks X or Y) in lieu of "I disagree" and add something to the discussion rather than professing disappointment that others cannot fathom your evident wisdom on the topic.

Try using statistics, as those aren't media inspired to my knowledge and actually make you sound informed.

And then when someone does post actual statistics to refute your argument, you can just ignore them. Kinda like when a couple of us showed you that Manning has had multiple top-8 points against defenses (including #4 last year).
 
Peyton Manning is the only quarterback in the NFL this century who has made me cringe every single time he lines up against our defense.

Yeah, I guess you can call that respect.


Maybe in the recent past, but no way in 2001-2007 did I fear Manning. I knew, as certainly as Peyton did, that the Pats would win.

That's why the 2006 AFCCG comeback by the Colts was such a shock. It was so completely out of character for Manning vs. NE and he didn't become a legit every game threat til 2008.
 
And then when someone does post actual statistics to refute your argument, you can just ignore them. Kinda like when a couple of us showed you that Manning has had multiple top-8 points against defenses (including #4 last year).

Are you referring to the link to a Rodney Harrison discussion (expecting I would re-read the entire thread to figure out how that fits here) or that you actually counted the frequency of occurrence in the link I gave you?
The OP asked do you respect Manning? Rodney Harrison said he would take Manning over Brady. If you haven't figured it out, those are very different propositions. If you cannot see that, then I'm not going to explain it to you.

And I'm not sure I'm grasping the rest of your post. Do you mean Manning has benefited from a better defense, one ranked in the top 8, or something else? Seeing as the #4 appears to be the Broncos PA ranking last year, I'll assume that is what you meant.

And recall that you're the one who claimed I was wrong, so I suspected you knew that answer when you chimed in (maybe your "really wrong" was just a response to 'never', which I would agree was technically incorrect and was acknowledged by my own link that I provided in reply). If you want to be technical with my 'never' reference, I will accept that was an embellishment because there was the occasional good defensive year. If 'infrequently' works for you, then we can agree on that. If I missed some analysis you or anyone else offered, please give me the post number and I will happily re-read it. I scanned the thread again, and it doesn't seem to be there.

My challenge was how many defenses has Manning had with those numbers, giving you the actual link to the page with his Colts history to save you the effort. Manning joined the NFL in 1998 and sat out one year. That is 14 seasons. As you are being precise, how many top 10 defenses did you count, because I gave you the page to count it so no research required? Divide the low PA seasons by 14, get the percentage. If you want to see how that stacks up, do the same for Brady (2001-2013 less one season). Try the same comparison for top 5. That would be a somewhat reasonable analysis if you want to speak from facts rather than opinion.

Ultimately, if you want to argue the issue in the OP, then I can do that all day. Stupid declarations like a poster is a pawn to what the media writes while you possess the intellect to see past the hype will find me calling you out on your facts supporting your opinion because I don't accept that you possess some unique wisdom on the subject, and that is why I posted that reply. I watch the games and believe the numbers. I have little time or interest in media opinions as most don't like the Pats. If you claim to have an opinion based on your observations and statistics, then I am happy to talk those all day. If you want to blather about an opinion you "just know" is right, then I will take a pass on that discussion.
 
Maybe in the recent past, but no way in 2001-2007 did I fear Manning. I knew, as certainly as Peyton did, that the Pats would win.

That's why the 2006 AFCCG comeback by the Colts was such a shock. It was so completely out of character for Manning vs. NE and he didn't become a legit every game threat til 2008.

Maby just about the time Polien lobied for a change restricting DB's contact with recievers.... benifiting Mannings style of play......without that where would he be...
 
It's amazing to see that so many so called Patriot fans place such high value on the regular season, when your team gets to play bums, and such little value on the play offs, where the best teams of each season go to play in high pressure, single elimination, do-or-die football games.

Peyton Manning's "mastery" has been over mostly bad teams. He's a regular season stat-compiler, who compiles best in September and October, and worse in November, December, and January.

He's great at fantasy football. He's nowhere near GOAT status in actual football.

Period.

And to the poster who said something along the lines of me not being a "true fan of football" for not respecting and worshiping the greatness of pouty face. You're wrong.

In fact, I'll question you in being a true fan of football for putting such high value on a media-coddled baby who pouts and sulks on the sidelines like a 3 year old brat around his uninspired team mates when the chips go down.

Peyton Manning is a fantasy-football all star with the attitude of Jay Cutler.
I love how he threw his offensive line under the bus when at Indy.

I loved how this week he threw his special teams under the bus and whined about not getting another chance despite the fact he had been given chance after chance after chance after chance already and did NOTHING with it.

The man has no heart, no grit, no fortitude, no inner strength. Just some natural ability, a silver spoon and a really great public relations team.

Real football starts with the post season. Any regular season feats are just a feather in a hat that's otherwise woven with championships and play off performances.

Beating the Jags, Titans, expansion team Texans, Raiders and Chargers a bunch of times every year, just to go down in flames in the play offs, doesn't build you statues and monuments.

Go get brainwashed by the NFL network some more.
 
It's amazing to see that so many so called Patriot fans place such high value on the regular season, when your team gets to play bums, and such little value on the play offs, where the best teams of each season go to play in high pressure, single elimination, do-or-die football games.

Peyton Manning's "mastery" has been over mostly bad teams. He's a regular season stat-compiler, who compiles best in September and October, and worse in November, December, and January.

He's great at fantasy football. He's nowhere near GOAT status in actual football.

Period.

And to the poster who said something along the lines of me not being a "true fan of football" for not respecting and worshiping the greatness of pouty face. You're wrong.

In fact, I'll question you in being a true fan of football for putting such high value on a media-coddled baby who pouts and sulks on the sidelines like a 3 year old brat around his uninspired team mates when the chips go down.

Peyton Manning is a fantasy-football all star with the attitude of Jay Cutler.
I love how he threw his offensive line under the bus when at Indy.

I loved how this week he threw his special teams under the bus and whined about not getting another chance despite the fact he had been given chance after chance after chance after chance already and did NOTHING with it.

The man has no heart, no grit, no fortitude, no inner strength. Just some natural ability, a silver spoon and a really great public relations team.

Real football starts with the post season. Any regular season feats are just a feather in a hat that's otherwise woven with championships and play off performances.

Beating the Jags, Titans, expansion team Texans, Raiders and Chargers a bunch of times every year, just to go down in flames in the play offs, doesn't build you statues and monuments.

Go get brainwashed by the NFL network some more.

I've got some shocking news for you....

Dan Marino is also one of the best of all time, and he never won a Super Bowl.
 
Manning the QB I respect imensely as easily the 2nd greatest of his generation and anyone who doesn't see at least that is a blind squirral who needs to go find a nut. Is he one of the top ten quarterbacks of all time? Eh depends on your criteria and IMO he just barely makes the cut at #10 where as Brady is #2 and a few more great seasons with at least one more ring will vault him to #1.

For me the number one thing I ask when judging a QB is what kind of leader is he? What do his team mates say about him? Is he the hardest worker on the team and show by example what it takes to win? Is he a good guy that relates well to people and takes the bullet for his teamates if they screw up? More for todays day and age because its become so huge, how do they handle the media? They are the face of the franchise and need to be well spoken and articulate. Brady, Montana, Unitas, Staubach all score highly in this respect while others Manning, Marino, Bradshaw sound like jerks/primadonnas who can just play at a high level.

The second thing I look at is career stats. Any joe blow can have one extremly productive year remember Kyle Orten making the pro bowl and setting all kinds of records? Its much much harder to do it year after year after year and a quarterback that is top 20 in any important stat completions, yards, TDs, ect is worth a Hall of Fame look. How many highlight reel plays did you see that?!?!? did they make? Are they on NFL films over and over again? The one cravet I will add for this catagory is that I want efficent stats more then bulk stats. This is why I dismiss Bret Favre for instance because he owns all the stats even the bad ones like INTs. I would rather see a QB who owns the TD to INT ratio.

The third thing I look at is playoff stats. Do they elevate their play when the spot light is brightest and carry their teams when they need them most? This is where the best teams are and to show you are one of the best players you must beat the best. A one and done is about the worst sign I can think of and the 2010 season still sticks in my craw as one of the biggest disappointments in Brady's career. 2006 for example is probably the hardest loss I have ever had to deal with (Yes worse then the two superbowls) but I can at least respect that they made a deep run. Number of superbowls apperances and deep playoff runs matter which is why someone like Jim Kelly or Elway is ranked higher IMO then Marino.

The final decieding factor and its not the be all and end all that some make it out to be is the number of rings. Its how I choose between Brady and Montana really 4 to 3. Its the cherry on top and only used between two really close QBs but it does matter because Brady should have 5.

All of that said my top ten QB's of all time looks like this... and I'm sure I'm miissing someone so I reserve the right to edit it when someone points out my sleepy brain mistake.

#1 Joe Montana
#2 Tom Brady
#3 Otto Graham
#4 Johhny Unitas
#5 John Elway
#6 Terry Bradshaw
#7 Troy Aikmen
#8 Rodger Staubach
#9 Jim Kelly
#10 Payton Manning
 
#1 Joe Montana
#2 Tom Brady
#3 Otto Graham
#4 Johhny Unitas
#5 John Elway
#6 Terry Bradshaw
#7 Troy Aikmen
#8 Rodger Staubach
#9 Jim Kelly
#10 Payton Manning

Good post and very thoughtful top ten list. Much more so than one put together by the ESPN parrots.

I give the nod to Brady over Montana because of Brady's post season play, lack of weapons, AFC Championships and the salary cap era. It's too bad Brady didn't have Moss for the length of time that Montana had Rice.

Either way, I think Peyton Manning just barely scrapes by on a top ten all time list, or maybe barely misses it.

The people here insisting that he's an automatic top 5, or the 2nd best of all time, or any of that other gibberish are just flat out crazy.
 
The people here insisting that he's an automatic top 5, or the 2nd best of all time, or any of that other gibberish are just flat out crazy.

They are not crazy they just have different metrics for how they judge elite QB play. Some people prefer yards and blowouts and Payton does have several stats that Brady would need another 6 elite years to dream of touching. Stat wise Brady was mediocre for much of the beginning of his career. He was (rightful) labelled a game manager and a system QB, think Alex Smith with better weapons. It wasn't until 2007 that Brady started putting up jaw dropping stats and confirmed elite status by those metrics. I whole heartedly disagree with such metrics but based on pure numbers Manning, Favre, Marino, and Fouts are in a lot of ways better then Brady. Montana, Staubach, and Aikmen are all the same way. Its the history of the game in just about every era there is the calm cool collected field general that wins versus the exciting high flying stat whore that falls just short.
 
you can say or feel however you want...this is a free country.

I say Done Noringo....he still hates N.E. as any fool can plainly see on the pregame shows and I still think it's too bad Dan won't get his ring...poor iddle widdle jealous of Brady serial wife cheatewr.

I say Brayettte Farver!!!...the little gunslinger was always good for that INT at the worst times,especially the last half of his soap opera career.

and I say "all flies line up in formation!!! Moonhead Manning forehead landing strip IMMINENT! Alert Alert!! Landing in T minus three quarters! Omaha! Omaha! hut hut himmmmph splort...SPLAT....

as his biggest fan, Billy Bob Buggery from Icy Butte Colorado says..."wut tyme iz it???"

Yc4oXnl.jpg
 
The man has no heart, no grit, no fortitude, no inner strength. Just some natural ability, a silver spoon and a really great public relations team.

Really? It isn't possible to get through a high school training camp with a complete lacking of these qualities, much less do what is necessary to be a starter on a pro football team. Most people have to show some degree of these qualities just to get through their work day.
 
As a player I respect him in the sense that I respect all NFL players, it's tough to even get to the NFL. The fact is though he has consistently come up short in big games with stacked teams around him, one fluke Super Bowl does not change that, I respect Romo more than him, going undrafted to become a very good QB on hamstrung Cowboy's teams.
 
I respect Manning as a player and a person. He is certainly a very good QB, up there on one of the best list. .

I just can't stand him while he is a foe of the Patriots, the media bubble baths, and his constant commercials. Does that make me a bad person?
 
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No it doesn't, as long as you stop respecting him as a player & especially a person.
 
But... but... but that's not what ESPN says, or his former coach, or NY journalists that hate Brady, so how can it have merit?
 
I hate this thread because it reminds me how pervasive the reality-altering homerism is here.
 
OT-Reddit Peyton Manning fan loses bet

Had to share this. A Peyton Manning fan lost a bet at reddit over this Sunday nights game and honored it. Here's his post. Pure gold. :)

Tom Brady is a winner. While Peyton Manning wakes up and pisses orange juice in a rusty can, Tom pisses greatness in a golden toilet bowl. If you look at the stats, not only Super Bowl wins and touchdown records, but head to head match-ups, Tom owns Peyton every day of the week.

Let’s start with Super Bowl wins Source 1); Sure, Peyton has one. Tom had one too.. back in 2001. Now he has three. Tom actually has as many as the entire Manning family. Where Tom has the heroics of the entire Spartan legion that battled at Thermopoly when playoff time comes, Peyton approaches them more like Vanilla Ice approaches making records; He has one hit then fails a bunch and finally retires to doing reality television.

How about records? Source 2) Peyton sure has a lot of them. But where it matters, in playoffs wins, Tom once again makes him look like a blind monkey drunk on vodka. Manning is a sad 9-11 while Tom kicks his ass with a 17-7 record.

What about when the two QB’s go head to head? Source 3) Tom spanks Peyton like a cheap hooker just about every time. The record of 10-4 that Tom holds over Peyton sounds more like the score of a football game. One which Peyton Manning would lose. To Tom Brady.

Also, Tom Brady leads him in basic quality of life. Tom’s wife is hot. Peyton's wife is never in any pictures so you just kind of have to assume it is really Elway in drag. Peyton only wishes he could be Tom but he can't. Every now and then, he sits awake at night and wonders what it would like to be a winner like Tom. Sometimes he puts on a Brady jersey and dances around, imagining what it would be like to be as great as Tom. Then he cries himself to sleep. But not before he Abuses homeless children while Tom Brady rides bikes for disabled kids.

In the end, Tom Brady owns Peyton Manning in every single part of life, including handsomeness. It is well known that one single look from Brady can cure a child of cancer or scare a nazi so bad he would punch himself in the face. What is not widely known is he also once stopped an entire fleet of alien invaders by winking at them, making them realize there was no way they could take the Earth while Tom still walked it and making them pee themselves, turn face, and leave the galaxy never to return.

In all seriousness, Tom kind of reminds me of Michael Bean's role in Terminator 1. Except Michael Bean was running from the Terminator. Tom Brady would have intentionally grounded his face until he ran kicking and screaming back to the future where Tom would be waiting for him to punch him some more, for America! One day, Tom will run for president and when he is elected fix the entire world.

To sum up, Peyton Manning is a drunk hobo and Tom Brady the greatest thing since bread was partitioned.

Edit: added the link to the bet

Edit 2: Added more words to satisfy the word count of the bet.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Patriots/comments/1regxh/why_tom_brady_will_always_be_better_than_peyton/

:singing:
 
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