Do we really need to break the bank on Adam?

[BradyisGod]

Pay him. End it. If the Denver game was on the line, he would have made it.

 

[Ring 6]

I understand all of the emotion and respect for Vinatieri.
I just think we are missing the big picture in this type of debate. That being, almost every competant K makes most of their FGs. What is the difference between and average K and a top one? Vinatieri was 17th with 80% of his FGA made. 27 of the 32 kickers made 75% or more.
In other words, over an entire season the 27th best K on average would have missed one more.

I understand the clutch kick issue. But, when over 80% of ALL FGs are made in the league, its not a surprise when you make one, but a surprise when you dont.
Given that its an 80% chance, and aside from the Snow Bowl kick that is legendary, a big part of Vinatieri being the greatest clutch K is that he has had the opportunity to attempt clutch kicks.

The fact that he made them does make him special. But when you succeed a handful of times on something that is an 80% probability, its not shocking. The problem is he is compared on each of those kicks to a 0% probability.

No doubt, he has made great contributions, particularly the Snow Bowl. But to pay emormously for a guy who had the opportunity, and converted big kicks on the assumption they wouldn't have been made by another K when the average guy hits it 80% of the time, seems a stretch to me.

When it appears that his career is closer to the end than the beginning and he requires a large investment in retaining, I think the emotion of him being the guy in that spot needs to be tempered by the fact that what he did was simply his job, and its a job that most good Ks do not fail at.

 

[fgssand]

I understand all of the emotion and respect for Vinatieri.
I just think we are missing the big picture in this type of debate. That being, almost every competant K makes most of their FGs. What is the difference between and average K and a top one? Vinatieri was 17th with 80% of his FGA made. 27 of the 32 kickers made 75% or more.
In other words, over an entire season the 27th best K on average would have missed one more.

I understand the clutch kick issue. But, when over 80% of ALL FGs are made in the league, its not a surprise when you make one, but a surprise when you dont.
Given that its an 80% chance, and aside from the Snow Bowl kick that is legendary, a big part of Vinatieri being the greatest clutch K is that he has had the opportunity to attempt clutch kicks.

The fact that he made them does make him special. But when you succeed a handful of times on something that is an 80% probability, its not shocking. The problem is he is compared on each of those kicks to a 0% probability.

No doubt, he has made great contributions, particularly the Snow Bowl. But to pay emormously for a guy who had the opportunity, and converted big kicks on the assumption they wouldn't have been made by another K when the average guy hits it 80% of the time, seems a stretch to me.

When it appears that his career is closer to the end than the beginning and he requires a large investment in retaining, I think the emotion of him being the guy in that spot needs to be tempered by the fact that what he did was simply his job, and its a job that most good Ks do not fail at.

But thats just it...look what happens when they do fail...Scott Norwood , wide right Superbowl LOSS, Vanderjack, widest right ever NO Superbowl for YOU. Adam V. - Misses in the Snow, there would then have not been a chance of Adam V Missing in SB 36, Adam V misses in SB 38 we may not win. DO you not understand the risk (an extra million) is well worth the reward (Superbowls).

There is no statistic you can come up with or amount of money you can save or logic you can muster that can possibly make up for making the clutch pressure field goal when it counts the most.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I understand all of the emotion and respect for Vinatieri.
I just think we are missing the big picture in this type of debate. That being, almost every competant K makes most of their FGs. What is the difference between and average K and a top one? Vinatieri was 17th with 80% of his FGA made. 27 of the 32 kickers made 75% or more.
In other words, over an entire season the 27th best K on average would have missed one more.

I understand the clutch kick issue. But, when over 80% of ALL FGs are made in the league, its not a surprise when you make one, but a surprise when you dont.
Given that its an 80% chance, and aside from the Snow Bowl kick that is legendary, a big part of Vinatieri being the greatest clutch K is that he has had the opportunity to attempt clutch kicks.

The fact that he made them does make him special. But when you succeed a handful of times on something that is an 80% probability, its not shocking. The problem is he is compared on each of those kicks to a 0% probability.

OK. . . . you want math, tell you what: find the distances he made those kicks from, and I'll estimate--based on average data--what the odds of an average kicker making all but one of those do-or-die kicks (he did miss one back before Brady) is. But I'd be very surprised if it was more than about 5% or so.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

I couldn't imagine not having him but if we franchise him again his salary goes up 20% to a little over $3M. It's getting to be a problem, for sure.

$3M!

A bit pricey...for a kicker.

He usually is money in the playoffs though. Usually (cough)...

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

$3M!

A bit pricey...for a kicker.

He usually is money in the playoffs though. Usually (cough)...

Maybe we should try to get Vanderjackhole or Mr. Rohipinol (Jani-cow-ski).

 

[skri65]

Is vinatieri doesnt make the FG in the oakland game in 2001, we dont go to the superbowl, the dynasty never begins. If Vinatieri doesnt make the FG in the rams game, who knows what coudl have happened. Same with the carolina SB.
Who knows what would have happened if we had another kicker in for all those kicks...I dont want to see us lose on a FG next season, a FG that we've seen vinatieri hit so many times. Kickers are all about clutch, and they're the guys who often win or lose the game in the final seconds. Adam is more clutch than any other kicker in the league. This, I feel, is the reason he deserves the money he asks.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Is vinatieri doesnt make the FG in the oakland game in 2001, we dont go to the superbowl, the dynasty never begins. If Vinatieri doesnt make the FG in the rams game, who knows what coudl have happened. Same with the carolina SB.
Who knows what would have happened if we had another kicker in for all those kicks...I dont want to see us lose on a FG next season, a FG that we've seen vinatieri hit so many times. Kickers are all about clutch, and they're the guys who often win or lose the game in the final seconds. Adam is more clutch than any other kicker in the league. This, I feel, is the reason he deserves the money he asks.

I wonder if his legs are insured...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

:wha:

Explain, please.

Hopefully I don't get shot down for this

A kamikaze drew4008 bomber sneaking up behind your Clutch Vinatieri can ruin your whole day. http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/us_index.htm

I'm sure if I'd used the proper "position angle" instead of just angle you'd have understood it better, my bad.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

A kamikaze drew4008 bomber sneaking up behind your Clutch Vinatieri can ruin your whole day. http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/us_index.htm

I'm sure if I'd used the proper "position angle" instead of just angle you'd have understood it better, my bad.

No, I had a fairly good picture of what you were trying to describe (an airplane shooting missiles), I just didn't understand what it was referring to (e.g., was that how AV views a FG kick)?

But thanks for clearing it up.

 

[BelichickFan]

I love Adam as much as everyone but kickers are easily available and with a $3.3 or so Franchsise Tag number this year, if we can't sign him to a longer deal, that's about $3M more than we'd have to pay a draftee or the like. That money could re-sign Givens or a very good replacement.