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Do the Pats Have the Best Nickel Package in the League Now

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DropKickFlutie, Jul 28, 2011.

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  1. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rookie

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    Consider that in passing situations the Patriots will now feature:
    -A front four of Wilfork, Haynesworth, Gerard and Ty Warren (or Ron Brace/Marcus Stroud)
    -Linebackers Mayo and Guyton
    -Corners McCourty, Bodden, and Ras-I Dowling
    -Safeties Chung and Meriweather

    The Pats are set up well to defend on passing downs now (even without a clear pass rush!)
  2. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    T Warren, Haynesworth (if he plays), Wright, and Pryor/Vince give four guys up front who can pressure.

    When BB says you can never have too many good CB's take him at his word. This should bring us to four pressure (through the middle)/ drop seven.

    That's the formula for beating ELITE offenses.
  3. fester

    fester Rookie

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    1) Let's wait and see what Dowling can do before we annoint him as "NFL Competent" much less Canton bound.

    2) That front four is a monster run-stopping nickel package and it should be able to generate serious interior pressure with Haynesworth/Wilfork standing up their guards and walking them backwards. I would prefer replacing one of the 3-4 DEs with a 3-4 OLB (probably Ninkovich or Moore given the current roster) to add a bit fo speed, and replace the other 3-4 DE with Mike Wright or Myron Pryor.
  4. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    In Nickel Situations the Pats - like many other 3-4 team such as PIT - use their OLBs as DEs. Ty Warren really should be out there on a 4-man-line. Gerrard Warren is kinda a step up. Wilfork can cause he has the quick burst, but having him play all 3 downs isn't good.

    Really, the best options are Wright, along with Haynesworth and Stroud. Pair one of the 3 up with Wilfork or G. Warren and those are the 2 interiors.

    But for DEs on the 4 man line? Ugh, slim pickins.
  5. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've said it from the start and I'll say it again, the best pass rush starts with the defensive line. Assuming Haynesworth returns to the level of play he's capable of, the starters for the Patriots defensive line could be considered one of the strongest in the NFL.

    Outside of getting an stud OLB like a DeMarcus Ware, this is the best possible outcome we as PatsFans could have possibly hoped for. It may not solve the problem of generating consistent pressure and collapsing the pocket on a regular basis, but it goes a long, long way to alleviating it.

    My hope is Haynesworth feels that way too.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  6. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Considering that the Pats had the worst 3rd down defense last year, it is way too premature to annoint them the best nickle defense. The Pats still have questions at the outside rushing. We don't know if Haynesworth will be motivated. We still don't know how Bodden, Wright, Brace, Pryor, and Warren will rebound from their respective injuries.
  7. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rookie

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    The Pats' 4 D-linemen might be the best in the league, and on passing downs this 4 against 5 O-linemen is a huge mismatch. It will require keeping a RB or TE in to help out, or this line will generate some major pressure up the middle.
  8. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No they are not the best nickel team in the league, calm down. Last year they were the worst in the league so I don't think they have moved up 30+ spots.

    Other comments:
    • I don't think Gerard Warren is even on the team
    • they will never play 4 DTs unless it is a short yardage situation
    • the nickel would likely look like Moore, Wright, Haynesworth and Cunnigham

    Of the top of my head I would rank the Steelers, Packers and Ravens near the top of the list of nickel defenses.
  9. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rookie

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    The 2003 Pats defense did a massive turnaround compared to where it ranked in 2002. It can happen. Not only because of new guys like Haynesworth, but the leap made by a lot of young talented players on that defense.

    The Pats just released Stroud, and I agree the nickel D would probably feature some of the quicker players like Wright, Pryor, and even Ninkovich off the edge.
  10. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    I think a better way to look at this is who will be better against elite offenses in nickel and dime?

    Ravens and Steelers suck against elite offenses. The Packers can be run on.

    Also, if Albert works out and Wright, Ty, and Bodden are OK, who is getting more reinforcements?

    The one good thing is our upgrades are addition by addition.
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We have NOT gone from the WORST 3rd down team in a decade to the best.

    I would agree that we will much better with the acquisition of Haynsworth, and with Bodden back.

    For now, Ty Warrren simply replaces G. Warren who did a reasonable job.
  12. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If T. Warren is even a rough approximation of the player that he was in 2009, he'll be a substantial upgrade from G. Warren. Add in the fact that the hip injury was something that he had been dealing with for a long time, Ty could be much better than that, with the surgery to fix the issue and a year of rehabilitation. Or he could be done, hard to say with hip injuries and 300+ pound guys.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  13. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Agreed. However, I'd like use to re-sign G. Warren.

    BTW, Ty Warren is not a substantial upgrade in the nickel which is what we are discussing. Ty Warren is a substantial upgrade in run defense.

  14. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    i agree with Rob and mgteich you dont just go from worst to first by adding one DE most of the pats corvage problems were at S and LB they are still the same they will be better but not the best
  15. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rookie

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    The Ravens and Steelers have strength at linebacker, which gets taken away if they need to defend 3, 4, 5 receivers (though there is the pass rush aspect as well)

    I don't think it's out of the question that we could see nickel packages where both Wilfork and Haynesworth are on the field. They're big but both pretty quick and good pass rushers especially if not double teamed.
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Big Vince is an excellent DT getting pressure p the middle in a 1 gap. He just doesn't get the opportunity very often. I would think that in passing situations we will see a LOT of Vince/Haynes playng 1 gap DT.

    I agree with using a Cunningham as a DE in these situations.

    Also BB likes to rotate DLmen to keep them fresh, so a lot of work for all the DL.
  17. farn

    farn Rookie

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    Won't be the best. BUT - if NE can be even "slightly above average" on 3rd down they'd have a huge boost. If you go 14-2 with poor 3rd down defense, it bodes well if you improve to "good".

    The takeaways helped in 2010. A lot. Not sure they duplicate that, so improvement is a must.

    Best ? No. Improved ? Think so.
  18. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We were a much better 3rd down team the second half of the season than the first half. Also they had a lot of big leads and played a lot of prevent which skewed the stats.

    This will be a very good defense this year.
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Our run defense is obviously much improved with the additions of Ty Warren and Haynsworth.
    ==========

    The OP suggests that our nickel is now the best. We will certainly be better at DT with Haynsworth and Wilfork, but WHO IS PLAYING DE in the nickel. Do we really think that two of the following are the BEST????

    CUNNINGHAM
    MOORE
    NICKOVICH
  20. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rookie

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    I remember there were stats where the last 8 games they had one of the best defenses, including passing D. This all without Warren and Bodden in the lineup. Now you add back Warren, Bodden, and now Haynesworth (plus Ras-I Dowling) and this defense could be a force.

    Big Vince Wilfork played 4-3 at Miami and was a major disruptor. He isn't your typical huge nose tackle who can't pass rush. Wilfork is a beast pass rusher if he isn't triple teamed all the time.
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