Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzales.

[MoneyFX]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

1. Lloyd
2. Welker
3. Ocho
4. Branch
5. Edelman
6. Slater

 

[RayClay]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

I didn't know that, thanks. But I don't think it would be legal placing someone on IR with a "fake" injury to have him just as a contingency plan... (If I understood well that's what TealSox suggested, if not, props to me and my null reading comprehension.)

Define "legal".

...............................

 

[Henroc]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

1 lloyd
2 welker
3 stallworth
4 gonzalez
5 slater
6 edelman

The last two are mainly STers. So i wouldn't count them necessarily as Wideouts. So that leaves 4 Wideouts. lloyd and stallworth should be able to stretch the field and gonzo and welker should be able to own the slot position. Although, Gonzo can go deep on occassion. But should this scenario happen, i think this is how it goes down----->Ocho gets cut and Branch loses out to gonzalez in camp. But if they do keep another receiver i say why not Branch. He knows our system, not a burner anymore but he has chemistry with Brady. Can't underrate that. but check out the tape on Gonzalez. When he was healthy he had a lot to bring to the table.

Ultimately though, whoever is on the roster come SEPT, will be the best wideouts that did the most in training camp and deserve to play for this team.So even if Ocho is on the team in SEPT than so be it but he better perform

 

[supafly]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

1 lloyd
2 welker
3 stallworth
4 gonzalez
5 slater
6 edelman

The last two are mainly STers. So i wouldn't count them necessarily as Wideouts. So that leaves 4 Wideouts. lloyd and stallworth should be able to stretch the field and gonzo and welker should be able to own the slot position. Although, Gonzo can go deep on occassion. But should this scenario happen, i think this is how it goes down----->Ocho gets cut and Branch loses out to gonzalez in camp. But if they do keep another receiver i say why not Branch. He knows our system, not a burner anymore but he has chemistry with Brady. Can't underrate that. but check out the tape on Gonzalez. When he was healthy he had a lot to bring to the table.

Ultimately though, whoever is on the roster come SEPT, will be the best wideouts that did the most in training camp and deserve to play for this team.So even if Ocho is on the team in SEPT than so be it but he better perform

No way that BOTH Branch and Chad Johnson don't make the team, at least in my opinion.

You can state a case for one or the other not making the team, but I can't envision a scenario where both are cut.

I think you may be overstating the value of Gonzelez and Stallworth here, but to each his own of course. (and I am very familiar with Gonzo from watching every one of his games while at OSU, and I will be quietly rooting for him)

If anything, I think they add another WR to the group as AndyJohnson suggested, thus leaving us with 5 'true' WR's, and couting Edelman and Slater as ST players.

You can take your pick from Ocho/Branch, and the possible presence of a rookie will only make things harder to predict.

 

[Arrington Planet]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

...............................

That's what happens when I talk without knowing...

 

[Peachhead]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

We have the bodies, but almost all of them are on the wrong side of 30, and skills for a WR tend to diminish pretty suddenly. Even if we get through this year with who we have on the roster. What about after that? We could go from 5 or 6 viable receivers down to 1 or 2 in a single offseason...or worse, training camp. I'd prefer not to have to break in 4 WRs all at the same time. We need some promising young talent in the pipeline.

Ocho - I wasn't really in favor of his signing in the first place, although I don't have the hatred for him that some do. But he needs to go. Redone contract or not. For everyone's sake. So we can open up a spot and clear a few bucks for someone with promise and hopefully more production. And for him to go to a system he can do well in. The incompatibility between him and our system is making him look worse than he is.

Branch - I love ya man. You are one of my proudest draft hits. And your personality in interviews and radio spots is exactly what I like from a Patriot. But it's almost that time. A training camp news conference may be in the near future (see: Patten, David)

Stallworth - We really don't know what we have in him. He was a great fit a few years ago. But that was a few years ago. Time waits for no man. (also see: David Patten)

Gonzales - I loved him in the draft. Cursed the day he went to Indy. Now he can't stay healthy. I hope he turns out like when we got Branch back from the Seahawks, and we can get a few good years out of him. But that's only hope.

Welker - We really need to get him signed, long-term. There's never been a WR so in tune with Brady. Those two are like the Wondertwins or something.

Lloyd - We know he has great chemistry with McDaniels. And we know McDaniels has great chemistry with Brady. So it follows that Lloyd should have great chemistry with Brady. But lets not take it for granted before we see it.

Slater - Core STer. But a marginal WR. Definitely sticks because of STs. But doesn't help much wrt WR depth.

Edelman - OK reserve receiver. Stud STer. Willing and able reserve DB. Sticks all day long and twice on Sunday. BB loves versatile football players.

 

[Gumby]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

There is a widespread belief that the actual IR rules may change this year, allowing a player originally placed on IR to return later in the season.

Originally Posted by Arrington Planet
I didn't know that, thanks. But I don't think it would be legal placing someone on IR with a "fake" injury to have him just as a contingency plan... (If I understood well that's what TealSox suggested, if not, props to me and my null reading comprehension.)

Originally Posted by Kliff Kingsbury
Define "legal".

hmmmm.

If I understand correctly the IR player's full salary counts vs cap. That is the primary mechanism I would think in an open IR system that would ensure folks arent just stashing talent.

But that wouldn't prevent you from stashing late round or UDFA w/ high upside talent who wouldn't survive to make it to the PS.

I would think if the NFL lets this go through that Goodell would implement some strict rules about what "injury" could qualify for IR to prevent that stashing.

So back on point here; I would think Stallworth, Gonzalez, Johnson and maybe Branch would cost more than BB would be willing to allocate toward the wr portion of cap pool (if he tried to IR 1-2 and keep 3 or all 4 on team). So I would only see 2 of the 4 making it on a rough-guess financial basis.
But Branch is a for sure shadow roster candidate. (high vet value to pats; limited value to other teams, some level of team loyalty.)

 

[Wilfork#75]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

I consider Slater and Edelman special teamers, so I would keep 5 WR's not including them.

1. Welker
2. Lloyd
Branch, Ocho, Stallworth and Gonzalez fight it out for 3 & 4
5. Rookie

I think Training Camp will have a way of working things out between the veteran WR's. It might look like good depth now, but with their age and injury history, that may not be the case in September.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

There are plenty of options for WR.

Late 1st rounder used:

1. Welker
2. Lloyd
3. Hill (R)
4. Branch/Ocho
5. Edelman
6. Slater

Two 3rd/4th rounders used:

1. Welker
2. Lloyd
3. Branch/Ocho
4. M. Jones (R)
5. G. Childs (R)
6. Slater
(Edelman canned)

No rookies drafted:

1. Welker
2. Lloyd
3. Branch
4. Ocho
5. Edelman
6. Slater

I'm a fan of option 2, option 1 I wouldn't be mad at, but drafting no rookies leaves us screwed in 2013.
Not a fan of the 2nd round value for WRs (Jeffery, Sanu, Givens)

It'd be sweet if Edelman could be canned by a rookie WR that can return well.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

hmmmm.

If I understand correctly the IR player's full salary counts vs cap. That is the primary mechanism I would think in an open IR system that would ensure folks arent just stashing talent.

Some players (Gonzalez we know for certain is in this boat) have clauses in their contracts that lower their salaries if they end up on IR. Not that it would make a huge difference, but sometimes every dollar counts. [Gonzalez would get about $42K per week if active, about $22K if he's on IR.]

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

It'd be sweet if Edelman could be canned by a rookie WR that can return well.

You have a strange definition of "sweet."

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

1. Lloyd
2. Welker
3. Ocho
4. Branch
5. Edelman
6. Slater

I say BINGO to that list....I believe that is exactly the lineup on week 1 at WR

I just wish that Slater was more useful than just a STer....he is rarely used at WR and his defensive experiment was dumb.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

We have the bodies, but almost all of them are on the wrong side of 30, and skills for a WR tend to diminish pretty suddenly. Even if we get through this year with who we have on the roster. What about after that? We could go from 5 or 6 viable receivers down to 1 or 2 in a single offseason...or worse, training camp. I'd prefer not to have to break in 4 WRs all at the same time. We need some promising young talent in the pipeline.

Ocho - I wasn't really in favor of his signing in the first place, although I don't have the hatred for him that some do. But he needs to go. Redone contract or not. For everyone's sake. So we can open up a spot and clear a few bucks for someone with promise and hopefully more production. And for him to go to a system he can do well in. The incompatibility between him and our system is making him look worse than he is.

Branch - I love ya man. You are one of my proudest draft hits. And your personality in interviews and radio spots is exactly what I like from a Patriot. But it's almost that time. A training camp news conference may be in the near future (see: Patten, David)

Stallworth - We really don't know what we have in him. He was a great fit a few years ago. But that was a few years ago. Time waits for no man. (also see: David Patten)

Gonzales - I loved him in the draft. Cursed the day he went to Indy. Now he can't stay healthy. I hope he turns out like when we got Branch back from the Seahawks, and we can get a few good years out of him. But that's only hope.

Welker - We really need to get him signed, long-term. There's never been a WR so in tune with Brady. Those two are like the Wondertwins or something.

Lloyd - We know he has great chemistry with McDaniels. And we know McDaniels has great chemistry with Brady. So it follows that Lloyd should have great chemistry with Brady. But lets not take it for granted before we see it.

Slater - Core STer. But a marginal WR. Definitely sticks because of STs. But doesn't help much wrt WR depth.

Edelman - OK reserve receiver. Stud STer. Willing and able reserve DB. Sticks all day long and twice on Sunday. BB loves versatile football players.

BUT, what if the Pats draft a receiver in the 2nd round ? I can definitely see it happening. There are several that fit the Patriot's mold for receivers, for instance, guys who play in Patriot's type of offenses (Like Notre Dame when Weiss was there, or Fresno State, etc), or smart type receivers who are good route runners. I can see a guy like Devon Wylie of Fresno State being a perfect fit (Welker size with 4.33 speed and a return man).

 

[Mikeyb]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

Past poor draft picks have left fans aghast
Of receivers that have been miscast.
Let’s hope Bill fills the need
For high skill not just speed.
Not more wide outs that go nowhere fast!

 

[Aßßynormal]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

I wouldn't rule out Wes Welker being traded.

If not, then one of them will get cut.

As each day passes this becomes more of a possibility. That is, if Welker can find a team willing to give him what he wants, he would then sign his Tender and be gone by trade. He won't be traded by us without Welker's consent until he signs his Tender. [In fact, BB is not likely to even try without a signed Tender.] Sort of the way Branch left us.

Edelman stays as a Punt Returner, WR, general special teams player and all-around good guy. Lloyd also makes the team as does Welker (if he's still here). After that it's dog eat dog. I think it's a good possibly a 'big' WR gets drafted (mid-round dropper) as well AND I wouldn't be surprised by a Patton sized late round 'burner' as well.

 

[Gronkandez]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

Past poor draft picks have left fans aghast
Of receivers that have been miscast.
Let’s hope Bill fills the need
For high skill not just speed.
Not more wide outs that go nowhere fast!

Did you make that up yourself?

Will you be posting all your ideas as rhymes?

pretty clever but I feel like you'll be bashed by the traditionalists

 

[Mikeyb]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

Did you make that up yourself?

Will you be posting all your ideas as rhymes?

pretty clever but I feel like you'll be bashed by the traditionalists

I can't take credit, it's a JohninLynn Limerick from PFWinProgress.com.
But I agree with it.

it's here:
http://pfwinprogress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1632

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

Too early to tell, but I imagine that (if still within the rules) Anthony Gonzalez will be put on IR and be recalled mid-way through the season. This could apply to Branch or Stallworth too....

Stashing them away till they have some good tape of the rest of the corp.

Welker and Lloyd will be locked in... I don't see Edelman going anywhere. While I don't see Ochocinco doing anything for this team, so why not cut the loss - despite the track regard.

I hope that Stallworth and Gonzalez can bring something new to this team and open up this offense even further, but I'm thinking it is a pipe dream.

You cannot put players on IR then activate them later.
You can put them on PUP, but that is only possible if they never participate in a single practice.
None of those players signed here to sit out training camp with a fake injury, miss the first 6 games of the season, and hope that they might get activated in the susequent 4 weeks.
If that's what BB had in mind for them, they would have signed with a team that wanted them to be football players.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

and Edelman, that's 6 receivers, not counting possible draft choices too. Who do you think get's the axe ? I'm thinking Stallworth, even though he's still fast and knows the system get's the axe along with Gonzales. Unless they move Edelman to DB fulltime. What do you ladies and gents think ?

Last year Brady had to throw against most defenses that had 6 men in the box. That is due primarily to defenses not respecting our ability to run.

In 2012 defenses will again key on Welker, Hernandez and Gronkowski with nickel and dime coverages plus lots of smaller coverage type LBers and dare Brady to beat them by throwing to the lesser receivers. With an offensive line built for pass protection, I see little chance of us morphing into a power running team, but I think this is the perfect time reintroduce FB and the screen game.

Instead of throwing it downfield into windows the size of tea cups, Brady checks it down to a FB and let him rumble over tiny fast LBers for first downs. When teams counter with larger and slower run stopping LBers, you hit Gronkowski over the top. None of the league's few remaining big LBers can cover Gronkowski and most of the smaller ones lack the courage to take him on.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Do the Pats have room for 6 receivers ? Welker, Branch, LLoyd, Stallworth, Gonzal

You have a strange definition of "sweet."

Sounds like his definition is making the team better = sweet.
I'd love for a ton of players that were on last years team to be cut because we acquired a better player.