Do our signings mean we give up 2 #1s for a higher #1 pick?

[ChoWZa]

The only player I think would be worth trading up for is LaRon Landry. And unless we were able to get down into the top 10 (unlikely); then we would have no shot at him. I honestly believe that Landry is the best defensive player in this draft, and the second best overall player in the draft after Calvin Johnson. Landry will be a STUD in the NFL.

That said; I love it that we have the two first rounders. It gives us so much flexibility. I would be more then happy with a guy like Mike Griffin and the exta selection.

This is the only player I would consider giving up the two picks. A lot of people like Reggie Nelson.. I wouldn't trade up for Landry if we could guarantee nelson at 24. Landry is the perfect patriot tho

 

[harveyw]

I will post here what I posted the last time moving up was discussed.

The quality of the teams making the picks. This is a doozy and needs to be recognized. In the BB/SP they have made the following post-20 first round draft selections with the corresponding top 10 from each draft. I marked any player that was even debatable (read: I don't agree that all of the red are better, just that it is debatable) with red font.

2006
Laurence Maroney (21)

1 Houston Mario Williams DE North Carolina State
2 New Orleans Reggie Bush RB Southern California
3 Tennessee Vince Young QB Texas
4 N.Y. Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson T Virginia
5 Green Bay A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio State
6 San Francisco Vernon Davis TE Maryland
7 Oakland Michael Huff SS Texas
8 Buffalo Donte Whitner SS Ohio State
9 Detroit Ernie Sims OLB Florida State
10 Arizona Matt Leinart QB Southern California

2005
Logan Mankins (32)

1 San Francisco Alex Smith QB Utah
2 Miami Ronnie Brown RB Auburn
3 Cleveland Braylon Edwards WR Michigan
4 Chicago Cedric Benson RB Texas
5 Tampa Bay Carnell Williams RB Auburn
6 Tennessee Adam Jones CB West Virginia
7 Minnesota Troy Williamson WR South Carolina
8 Arizona Antrel Rolle CB Miami
9 Washington Carlos Rogers CB Auburn
10 Detroit Mike Williams WR Southern California

2004
Vince Wilfork (21)
Ben Watson (32)

1 San Diego Eli Manning QB Mississippi
2 Oakland Robert Gallery T Iowa
3 Arizona Larry Fitzgerald WR Pittsburgh
4 N.Y. Giants Philip Rivers QB North Carolina State
5 Washington Sean Taylor FS Miami
6 Cleveland Kellen Winslow TE Miami - Watson only
7 Detroit Roy Williams WR Texas
8 Atlanta DeAngelo Hall CB Virginia Tech
9 Jacksonville Reggie Williams WR Washington
10 Houston Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina

2002
Dan Graham (21)

1 Houston David Carr QB Fresno State
2 Carolina Julius Peppers DE North Carolina
3 Detroit Joey Harrington QB Oregon
4 Buffalo Mike Williams T Texas
5 San Diego Quentin Jammer CB Texas
6 Kansas City Ryan Sims DT North Carolina
7 Minnesota Bryant McKinnie T Miami
8 Dallas Roy Williams SS Oklahoma
9 Jacksonville John Henderson DT Tennessee
10 Cincinnati Levi Jones T Arizona State

NE has made 5 selections. All but one are bonafide starters at their position, and NE apparently has faith that the 5th will rpove to be a starter next year. In that same drafts, there were 17 players drafted in the top ten that a case could be made that they have proven to be better guys than who NE ended up with. Said another way, the 5 players taken after the top 20 had already passed are clearly better than 23 of 40 guys who were taken in the top 10.

With that track record, why would anyone be in favor of moving up?


Edited to say that Pacman has proven to be a very good player, but I considered him out of the running for red considering that it is likely that he is unemployed soon.

I am pretty sure we could use a Deangelo Hall, but I geuss he is not talented enough. I would sure take him over the broken down Cadillac.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Not without a second round pick.

I think when we got Welker, it pretty much ended any discussion of trading away the two first round picks for one. I suppose if we did a trade where we moved up modestly and also got a package that included another reasonably early first-day pick it could happen. But I still doubt it. The only way I could see it would be if there were a team that had it's eye on a guy who gets drafted higher than they expect who don't mind moving down, and we have a guy we really want still on the board. In short, if this were to happen, I think it would only happen on draft day just before the pick itself, and I still think it's very unlikely. I think it's much more likely that we'll trade down.

 

[Oswlek]

I am pretty sure we could use a Deangelo Hall, but I geuss he is not talented enough. I would sure take him over the broken down Cadillac.

I have a dream.

I have a dream that one day, the quality of a man's play will be judged not by how much press he gets or when he was drafted but by how well he actually performs on the field. That the quality of a cornerback will be determined by how well he covers his man rather than how fast he runs or how high he can jump.

I have a dream that when a message board poster makes a reply, that he or she will actually put some thought into making it a saliant point. That they will attempt to make a legitimate case for their side rather than just glossing over the issue with a snide strawman.


DeAngelo Hall is not nearly as good as everyone says. In fact, most of the time that I have seen Atlanta play, he has been a defensive non-factor. I would take Cadillac, who was the victim of terrible blocking and a passing offense that would make NE's 2006 edition look like the 2004 Colts, over Hall 100% of the time. Yes, I realize that he made the probowl this year, but I would hope that a Pats fan who has seen Rodney Harrison, Tom Brady and Ty Warren all get snubbed in recent years would understand how little credibility that entails.

Your post ignores two things, however, that make it completely invalid:

1) Even if DeAngelo Hall was God's gift to cornerbacks, that still means that NE's post-20 picks are still better players than more than half of the top 10 picks in their respective drafts. How does your post address this issue? Do you dispute the fact that NE has consistently gotten better players late in the draft than most get in the first 10 picks?

2) I never said that I wouldn't want any of the players in black on the Patriots. This is the biggest fallacy of your post. Of course I would take Hall on the NE Patriots! You can add Braylon Edwards, Dunta Robinson, Vernon Davis and Michael Huff to that list as well. Your attack was laid as if I feel that every top 10 player has been a bust, rather than what a really said: Vince Wilfork is better than Hall.