Discuss the Offense (Week 3)

[mayoclinic]

BB on Cameron Fleming's development:

“I think Cam [Fleming] has done a real good job for us,” Belichick said. “One of the challenges for him and for us was him not really being here for much of the spring. Just being late in spring because of his commitments to school. We really didn’t have a great feel for him until training camp started.

“And he came here in really good condition. He ran well. He dropped some weight; he leaned up. He worked really hard between the beginning of June and the end of July. He was definitely ready to go, had a good camp, performed very well. And caught up to all the things we were doing in a short amount of time. The more time we spent around him, the more impressed we were.”

Fleming, a 6-foot-6, 325-pound tackle out of Stanford, was selected by the Patriots in the fourth round (140th overall). In the Patriots’ 30-7 victory over the Minnesota Vikings on Sunday, Fleming played 28 of 67 plays as a tight end, equaling tight end Rob Gronkowski’s workload.

“When you draft a guy, I don’t think you draft a tackle to play tight end,” Belichick said. “We didn’t draft [Nate] Solder to play tight end but even in his rookie year he played a lot of that position. Sometimes it just works out that way one way or another depending on your team and a little bit on the player’s skills.”

Fleming could be on a similar track as starting left tackle Nate Solder, who was a tight end during his freshman season at Colorado and also played tight end as an extra blocker in his first season with the Patriots.

“I think Cam showed us repeatedly in both practice and in preseason games, practices against Philadelphia and Washington, he could earn time on the field,” Belichick said. “Sometimes you sit in there as a staff and say how do we get our best players on the field -- get our best blockers on the field. We knew one way to do it in this case.”

Fleming is making a smooth transition to blocking at tight end, which is a bit different from playing tackle.

“It’s one guy further away from the ball,” Belichick said. “There’s a lot of different looks a tight end has to see relevant to the outside linebacker, the defensive end, the safety, sometimes the corner on the backside, slot. There’s a lot of configurations back there that are a lot different than what a tackle sees, but he has done a good job of that. Identifying them, recognizing, sorting them out, working in conjunction with either another tight end or the tackle to the inside of him.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...8465/belichick-fleming-is-catching-on-quickly

 

[hwc]

I also think that BB has realized that being one-dimensional doesn't work over the long haul. Having LeGarrette Blount didn't help much against Denver when they stacked the box every time he was in the game and won all of the battles at the LOS. If you can create mismatches with the OL and cause the other team to adjust, it will just be another thing that teams have to prepare for.

I agree, but I look at last season just a little bit differently. I think the wheels had come of the Air Belichick offense late in the season. Too many targets to too few receivers, too much pass rush pressure. Through much of the season, the offense would stall for long stretches and win games with some miracle 4th quarter drives. Late in the season, the offense was dead in the water and ground 'n pound with Blount was the only real shot they had of winning, IMO. I predicted, going into the Denver game, that they would only go as far as Blount would carry them. It was clear that the passing game was in shamles. We saw what happened when the ground 'n pound didn't work against Denver.

I thought this year would be different, with a full stable of healthy receivers back, and a full training camp with solid experienced receivers (every receiver on the Pats roster had between 32 and 105 catches last year). What concerns me is that I'm seeing exactly the same inconsistency from the Air Belichick passing game as last year. As they start playing top-shelf competition, the Pats just can't go for a half of football without touchdowns (or even first downs).

Based on what I've seen so far, this team cannot be a pass-happy Air Belichick offense. They must be balanced or the QB will get killed.

 

[mayoclinic]

Oliver Thomas breaks down Cameron Fleming's impact on the offense vs. Minnesota:

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2014...-enters-its-straightforward-for-patriots.html

Of note:

The 6’6”, 325-pound offensive tackle – in title – was in to block for all 25 of his snaps against the Minnesota Vikings in Week 2. And of those 25 penalty-excluding snaps, 22 turned out to be run plays designed for Stevan Ridley, Brandon Bolden and quarterback Tom Brady.

Stopping those run plays proved to be a different battle for Minnesota. A total of 81 rush yards and a goal-line touchdown were the byproduct when Fleming was called upon as a sixth offensive lineman for the second consecutive week.


The output wasn’t explosive. It wasn’t dominant. It was, however, steady. There was just one double-digit gain for the Patriots when Fleming was in accompanying starting tackles Nate Solder and Sebastion Vollmer. Yet there were also 11 carries for four or more yards, and zero carries for a loss of yards.

Every so often, though, another kind of play was called in New England’s huddle. A kind of play that’s less predictable to account for when over 1,800 pounds of blockers stand at the forefront of it.

The play-action pass.

The Patriots drew the defense in before going to the air a total of four times with Fleming in the game. And the end result was 3-of-3 passing for 38 yards and a penalty for defensive pass interference.

The deception began after New England’s offense opened the tilt with five straight run plays over the course of two series.

With jumbo “21” personnel on a 1st-and-10, the initial pass went to second-year wideout Aaron Dobson on a dig route. It picked up 13 yards over the middle, as the linebackers encroached on the gaps and vacated the second level just enough for Brady to anticipate a window.


It was revisited out of “22” personnel for another 1st-and-10 not long after.

This time, the play-action pass went to fullback James Develin, who slipped through the trenches and into the flat while the front seven monitored Ridley’s blitz pickup.

Unattended, the connection acquired an additional 13 yards, as Develin collected his second catch of the game after harnessing four in 16 games last season.


Then, from “12” personnel on a 2nd-and-3, Brady found his primary receiver in Julian Edelman.

The Vikings leaned eight into the box following the fake exchange. Edelman slanted across the middle for 12 yards and reeled in the spiral as he angled upfield.


With Fleming still in the game, Edelman was turned to again later on.

Via “12” personnel for a 2nd-and-8 situation, the fourth and final target found the “Z” receiver on an out-and-up pattern down the right sideline. But that final attempt concluded with the football, and the flag, hitting the turf, following interference from 2013 first-round cornerback Xavier Rhodes.


When Fleming had his number announced through the speakers of TCF Bank Stadium in Minneapolis, the play-action pass was the end result on two plays in the first quarter, one in the second and one more in the third.

There are nice video clips in the article. Check it out.

 

[mayoclinic]

Based on what I've seen so far, this team cannot be a pass-happy Air Belichick offense. They must be balanced or the QB will get killed.

Personally, I never wanted them to be a "pass-happy Air Belichick offense". I don't think that's the ticket to another Lombardi. Obviously, I do want them to be able to pass the ball effectively.

 

[hwc]

And another one of the many paradoxes in NFL football. The less you pass the ball (within reason), the more effective you'll be when you do it!

The more ground 'n pound games they put on game film now, the better shot they'll have down the road.

 

[supafly]

I do not necessarily understand why it has to be either or, why do we have to sacrifice offense for defense or vice versa. Neither the defensive nor the offensive rebuilds were planned out well in my opinion, forcing the team to play through significant weaknesses in 1-2 positional groups on the team. I look at 2011 and if we had simply managed the rebuild of the secondary minimally, better we likely would have won the Super Bowl. Last season the WR position was the Achilles heel, this season it appears the OL is. The transition plan is too abrupt, attempting to turn over the entire WR corps or OL corps between the draft and week 1 of the season is too ambitious a goal and ultimately the weakest link ends up being our undoing in our biggest games.

While the rebuilding stages at certain positions have been difficult at times, it's pretty hard to argue with the overall success during those times:

2010---14 and 2
2011---13 and 3 + SB appearance
2012---12 and 4 + AFCCG appearance
2013---12 and 4 + AFCCG appearance

2009 was probably the worst team we've had in awhile, and even then, there was adequate balance, just not sufficient talent.

Some of this has been due to bad luck and injuries though, but it'd be nice to see a little bit more talent and veteran leadership at certain positions, as you mention.

 

[Ivan]

I have been trying to figure out since the seaon started why the offense looks so out of sync and initially felt like it was the struggles of the Oline that were the reason, however after yesterday's game I am starting to think there is something more to it, and that there is a real disconnect between belichick and MacDaniel's/Brady. even though the OL is clearly struggling i think Belichick has decided to make a philosophical shift to a more balanced offense and is no longer willing to let MacDaniel's go to spread offenses when they are struggling as a quick fix. Game situations still matter and a priority will still be put on winning each game, however I think Belichick is more willing to let them struggle to find their way and offensive balance as long as it doesn't cost them wins. i think we may be watching a longer term struggle for Brady and MacDaniel's and the offense as a whole to find balance and rythym and it may not be pretty but could well pay off for them in the play-off's if they have the patience to develop it.

 

[mayoclinic]

I have been trying to figure out since the seaon started why the offense looks so out of sync and initially felt like it was the struggles of the Oline that were the reason, however after yesterday's game I am starting to think there is something more to it, and that there is a real disconnect between belichick and MacDaniel's/Brady. even though the OL is clearly struggling i think Belichick has decided to make a philosophical shift to a more balanced offense and is no longer willing to let MacDaniel's go to spread offenses when they are struggling as a quick fix. Game situations still matter and a priority will still be put on winning each game, however I think Belichick is more willing to let them struggle to find their way and offensive balance as long as it doesn't cost them wins. i think we may be watching a longer term struggle for Brady and MacDaniel's and the offense as a whole to find balance and rythym and it may not be pretty but could well pay off for them in the play-off's if they have the patience to develop it.

I think that's a reasonable guess. I think to some extent the first quarter of the regular season is a transition from the abbreviated preseason, and the goal is to settle things out and tune the team up a bit. I don't mind these early struggles so much, because of the things that you cite. I've certainly wanted a more balanced offense for a long time.

 

[Ivan]

While the rebuilding stages at certain positions have been difficult at times, it's pretty hard to argue with the overall success during those times:

2010---14 and 2
2011---13 and 3 + SB appearance
2012---12 and 4 + AFCCG appearance
2013---12 and 4 + AFCCG appearance

2009 was probably the worst team we've had in awhile, and even then, there was adequate balance, just not sufficient talent.

Some of this has been due to bad luck and injuries though, but it'd be nice to see a little bit more talent and veteran leadership at certain positions, as you mention.

I agree in general but think that leadership has to be developed and they have leaders on most units, but they definitely lack some talent on their OL, however it is almost impossible to be loaded on all units. This team is a work in progress and Belichick, Brady, and MacDaniel's in particular are going to have to work their asses off to get it to the point where they can be serious contenders for the Lombardi.

 

[mgteich]

While the rebuilding stages at certain positions have been difficult at times, it's pretty hard to argue with the overall success during those times:

2010---14 and 2
2011---13 and 3 + SB appearance
2012---12 and 4 + AFCCG appearance
2013---12 and 4 + AFCCG appearance

It take a special kind of fan to continue to whine about the failure of the patriots over the past four years.

 

[mgteich]

While the rebuilding stages at certain positions have been difficult at times, it's pretty hard to argue with the overall success during those times:

2010---14 and 2
2011---13 and 3 + SB appearance
2012---12 and 4 + AFCCG appearance
2013---12 and 4 + AFCCG appearance

2009 was probably the worst team we've had in awhile, and even then, there was adequate balance, just not sufficient talent.

Some of this has been due to bad luck and injuries though, but it'd be nice to see a little bit more talent and veteran leadership at certain positions, as you mention.

It is NOT hard at all to argue with the overall success during these times. There have been literally hundreds of posts, perhaps thousands, doing exactly that over this time period.

 

[Ivan]

It is NOT hard at all to argue with the overall success during these times. There have been literally hundreds of posts, perhaps thousands, doing exactly that over this time period.

A really simplistic meme has developed over the last 5-6 seasons, if they don't win the Lombardi then they are failures. It isn't true and it is a ridiculously simplistic view of the game but it is there nonetheless. Belichick has achieved something that pretty much no organization does, he has kept them on top while rebuilding multiple times. the Lombardi is always the ultimate goal,but winning it is really really hard, and the best way to accumulate them is to always be in contention. They have won more than any other organization in this century and while some can call them failures I think they are the best franchise in the league. the NFL is structured to bring teams back to the pack and the Patiots have defied that structure despite its cap restraints and disadvantages drafting.

 

[Ivan]

It is NOT hard at all to argue with the overall success during these times. There have been literally hundreds of posts, perhaps thousands, doing exactly that over this time period.

i agree, it's easy, but it is also really stupid, however those making that argument are apparently fine with that.

 

[BradyFTW!]

As much as we're all put out by that offensive performance, and as much as we can put it on the line (and rightly so), Gronk had a second touchdown in his hands. He should have caught that, and at 100% he does 99 times out of 100 (even in his current state i'd say it's 9 times out of 10). And if that happens, we're talking about how much better the line got once Devey went out.

I'm not going to be a total homer here and claim that I liked what I saw yesterday. The offense still isn't good. But I don't think it has as far to go in order to become good as these outputs suggest. When your RG is utter garbage, it's going to blow up a lot of your gameplan. If the receivers looked bad, it was at least in part because Brady couldn't even complete a five step drop half the time before being forced to throw off his back foot. When he had time, guys got open, and once Devey was removed from the game, Brady had time. Still not as consistently as you would like, but it was an improvement.

Every prediction that I can make for the offenses at this point hinges on the assumption that they'll get their line in order. I'm not certain that they will, but I'm hopeful. And if they do, plus Gronk gets back to around 100%, this will become a very effective offense in the red zone. I'm also going to continue holding out hope for Dobson, although he'll have to get back on the field soon if I'm going to hold out much hope for him being a contributor this season.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Personally, I never wanted them to be a "pass-happy Air Belichick offense". I don't think that's the ticket to another Lombardi. Obviously, I do want them to be able to pass the ball effectively.

Agreed, it's not an either-or at all, and it bugs me when people act like it is. The Pats should be able to complete passes that travel 25+ yards in the air from time to time. It keeps defenses honest. Right now, there are a few things that keep us from doing that, mostly the inability to keep Brady upright long enough for those routes to develop, and also the lack of a big-bodied downfield target who can lower the degree of difficulty on those throws.

Even run-first offenses typically understand that that's a valuable part of their repertoire that helps to keep safeties out of the box.